Scottish Elections Result

[Overslop]

Also, if Scotland does become independent will they not lose most of 'their' oil? I seem to remember reading that if Scotland becomes independent of the UK, it's likely the Shetlands will also go their own way.

 

[Jokester]

I'm not just talking about the bank bailout, but the share of the overall national debt acculumated over the years since the UK was formed....

Yes.

 

[Biohazard]

I just don't know, i do know that us scottish can be greedy and prejudice beyond belief(beyond any other country in the world) so maybe being independant will quelch that for a while but i can't see scotland ever reaching the morality of england, scots base almost everyting on status, if we don't have the status then life doesn't mean anything.

Jesus

Everyone in the world base things on status.

Its called living in a HUMAN SOCIETY.

We aren't the only one's to have encountered it, btw.

We will die with status or without anyway, i see us scots as poor men, unable to take any kind of responsibility

Except they have just voted for a party that wants full responsibility for its own tax raising and spending?

Ok

akin to a third world country really

If you think Scotland is that bad, England is also a third world country by the same definitions.

I wasn't informed the third world had invaded the first, new one on me.

how that came to be with all the great people that have taught us will burden me to the end.

I wouldn't worry to much, if Scotland is currently as bad as Africa then surely you should just leave and never think about it again?

But it does worry me that the greed and gloatinness of the snp are aking over, if you ever thought that the scots we're humble and god fearing then think again, they seem to be power hungry and ignorant to dangers of the snp. Am i really suprised?

The SNP aren't taking over, people are voting for them.

Do you get elections in third world countries anyway?

God you're confusing me..

 

[Biohazard]

I fully understand that, however they would still then have to answer to their electorate at the next election. So if either side is seen to "lose" in the negotiations then it could cost them quite heavily in terms of votes.

Indeed, but I don't think that will have too much bearing on what happens.

I've briefly pointed out why an uneven deal would be worse for both in the long run, I hope each side would recognise this.

I agree, I too would like to see a fair settlement if independance were to happen, however after seeing some of the views in this thread I do dispair of the British voter on occassion!

Quite.

 

[McPhee]

I have seen this argument crop up on more than one occasion in these forums and have been reluctant to enter the discussion but I feel I have to point out the straw man within. The so called ‘Scottish’ banks at the time of the world’s financial collapse were not owned by Scotland. Therefore the straw man argument also throws up the non-sequitur inclusion of ‘Scottish’ as the name is the only reference point.



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Agreed. The same logic would have made Britain financially responsible for the BP oil crisis. Nobody would like that, surely?

 

[Biohazard]

That's a great watch.

I'm glad somone watched it.

In summary. Scottish Oil & Gas funded unemployment for the whole of the UK for years!

Pretty much, Scotland's oil was used to help the transition to remove it's industries.

Scotland produces more oil than Kuwait

Certainly at the time of production of the documentary, yes.

Shetland with a population of 22k has a budget surplus of £500m

Crazy isn't it? But nope, London makes all the money remember.

Any talk of reserves running out is purely to lower the estimated taxation of which we are the highest in europe! There is at least 40years of reserves of the current surveyed fields left and that is only a fraction of what is out there.

Yes, and as technology improves and prices rise we could even see an extension beyond that.

And most shockingly of all...Richard Hawkings brother is a fat Canadian.

Hahaha.

I like what that fat Canadian had to say about our oil industry though.

So....it's in the rest of the UK's interest for Scotland not to become independant!

Yes and no, in the short term yes but really in the long term no... our framework and direction will eventially lead to ruin.

If we can break off and adjust properly as smaller, more tactfully controlled economics, we can break this downwards trend.

 

[Dolph]

Yes.

So to be clear, you have factored in 10% of the total national debt, including the liabilties to the banks and public sector pension liabilities?

You do realise this is in the region of £400bn?

 

[Biohazard]

FF, what about blatant offensive xenophobic trolling then?

Why is that acceptable while my use of the word fool isn't?

This is stupid (can I say that???), the word is valid and it's use isn't an affront like bitter abuse.

Is troll then not also an abusive word, given the subjective contextual useage?

 

[weescott]

The bank of England is also a 'Scottish bank'. The fact is Scotlish influence is ingrained in 'England's' success and it grieves England that Scotland want to go their own way. The only people that are bitter are the English. Scotland just wan't a fair deal.

 

[Jokester]

So to be clear, you have factored in 10% of the total national debt, including the liabilties to the banks and public sector pension liabilities?

You do realise this is in the region of £400bn?

If the UK can manage the other 90% then there's no reason why Scotland can't manage it's 10%. Though Scotland is only 1/12 of the population, but you get the idea. Or are you arguing that since we're all doomed, we might as well go down as one?

 

[Metalface Mark]

So to be clear, you have factored in 10% of the total national debt, including the liabilties to the banks and public sector pension liabilities?

You do realise this is in the region of £400bn?

I honestly think that people up here think we would be given all the oil and gas reserves, leaving all the existing debt to England and Wales and walk off into sunset with a huge swag bag over our tartan clad shoulders.

 

[Raumarik]

I'm starting to understand just how tainted by ancient and daft rivalries this thread has become, pointless reading now imo. It's not a debate, it's a **** throwing contest.

 

[Dolph]

If the UK can manage the other 90% then there's no reason why Scotland can't manage it's 10%. Though Scotland is only 1/12 of the population, but you get the idea. Or are you arguing that since we're all doomed, we might as well go down as one?

The UK enjoys the faith of the bond markets, Scotland may not, for a variety of reasons that can't easily be changed (such as population demographics and industry spread).

Our debt is far too high as it is, which is why we have the coalition taking decisive action to at least stop it getting any bigger.

 

[Biohazard]

Our debt is far too high as it is, which is why we have the coalition taking decisive action to at least stop it getting any bigger.

/Sniggers.

Come off it.

Long term dolph, long term. Keeping in mind we have retained FPTP...

 

[weescott]

Yes and no, in the short term yes but really in the long term no... our framework and direction will eventially lead to ruin.

If we can break off and adjust properly as smaller, more tactfully controlled economics, we can break this downwards trend.

This is where I sense Alex Salmond is heading with the Scottish Government . As much as my heart says FREEEEDOM!!!!, my head says that Scotland should take it's time and get the best deal before breaking off. Not just for Scotland, but for Britain (not the UK) as whole. After all, Scotland will still want to help our neighbours.

 

[Jokester]

The UK enjoys the faith of the bond markets, Scotland may not, for a variety of reasons that can't easily be changed (such as population demographics and industry spread).

Our debt is far too high as it is, which is why we have the coalition taking decisive action to at least stop it getting any bigger.

It's been argued that because of the oil and gas reserves, Scotland would retain the faith of the markets if they were independent. But yes, Scotland would also have to steps to deal with the debt mountain and on going deficit crisis that it's share's as part of the UK.

 

[Biohazard]

This is where I sense Alex Salmond is heading with the Scottish Government . As much as my heart says FREEEEDOM!!!!, my head says that Scotland should take it's time and get the best deal before breaking off. Not just for Scotland, but for Britain (not the UK) as whole. After all, Scotland will still want to help our neighbours.

Exactly.

In a nutshell, that's it. (not help, but trade)

But nope, we're all greedy and anti English.

Funny that eh?

 

[Dolph]

/Sniggers.

Come off it.

Long term dolph, long term. Keeping in mind we have retained FPTP...

If you guys and gals go independent, Labour will never see power in the UK again

Given that every major public spending crisis has been a result of labour being in power, scottish independence could be good for the rest of the UK in many ways

 

[Jokester]

If you guys and gals go independent, Labour will never see power in the UK again

Given that every major public spending crisis has been a result of labour being in power, scottish independence could be good for the rest of the UK in many ways

Given their performance last night, I'm hoping regardless of independence!

 

[Valentino]

I honestly think that people up here think we would be given all the oil and gas reserves, leaving all the existing debt to England and Wales and walk off into sunset with a huge swag bag over our tartan clad shoulders.

Who owns the oil and gas? It's not on Scotch land, it's in the sea, there are some pretty strict rules set in place about sea ownership iirc.