Scottish Elections Result

[Biohazard]

I understand the 'toxicity' that the Conservatives have up here fine, but I believe it is daft, immature and short sighted and really ought to be laid to bed.

See my not so ninja edit.. that ultimately is a failure of the conservatives to convince people otherwise though?

No? How do you see the cause of the current stagnation?

If you disagree with the Conservatives for their current policies and what they are saying they will do is fine. However to ignore them outright because of their 'legacy' is wrong.

I agree, but the Conservatives need to go the extra mile to bridge this gap I feel which hasn't happened so far..

 

[Biohazard]

Im not questioning it has no resources, im asking what he considers the chief resources are.

Scotlands resources are;

1 The people.
2 Education system.
3 Geen energy potential.
4 Land and Agriculture.
5 Fisheries.
6 Oil & gas.
7 The Cities.
8 Scenery.
9 Geography.
10 Heritage.
11 Water.
12 Sciences
13 Industries

In no particular order.

Was 'he' in reference to Alex Salmond? In that case I'm not too sure what the SNP views are on resources to be honest. Can't be that different to the above.

 

[Biohazard]

Sorry should have been clearer, by UKCS I meant the UK Continental Shelf - i.e. where would they draw the line between North Sea ssets for England and Scotland if they were to become independent.

The line is already there...

 

[Biohazard]

Unless the torries radically changed their manifesto I cant imagine myself voting for them in the future. And even leaving aside the whole coalition thing, when have the Lib Dems ever looked likely to win a majority? Their born to be 3rd. Waste of a vote.

Took me a minute to work out what you meant by the "milk and mines" thing. I assume you mean Thatcher closing the coal mines and taking the free milk away from school kids? I wouldnt hold back a vote over that. I dont hold a party responsible for the actions of one of its former leaders.

"Maggie Thatcher milk snatcher!"

And well that is what she done. Took the oil, and took our bairn's milk while she was at it (Sorry Ahleckz )

 

[Biohazard]

Biohazard - I've only read the last two pages but I assume you want an independent Scotland and/or hate the English.

Is that correct?

Whatever, try reading and you might get somewhere.

 

[Biohazard]

It was only a question... you could have easily answered yes or no. It was difficult to tell from your posts but I wanted to know if you lent a certain way so I could correctly interprut them and not jump to conclusions.

Well if you had read the thread it would be more than clear.

I want not only Scottish independence, but for the UK to break up for its own long term prospects.

I don't hate England and this Scottish Nationalism automatically equating to xenophobia is a massive pile of nonsense to what is a genuinely positive and progressive Scot's civic movement.

 

[Biohazard]

He was Jas, the guy i was asking the question to.

How are those resources any different to any other country that is surrounded by water? (taking aside the oil and gas resource)

They aren't.

(You would also have to remove renewables to be fair.)

 

[Biohazard]

If the UK was split up either England would inherit all of the UK's current international positions or we'd be kicked out of the Security council etc altogether.

I think England would certainly try to hold on, I couldn't blame them either.

The union is a powerful amplifier for the country though, and its loss would be hard to estimate in those relations.

If it happened England would ultimately lose, we are likely to be elbowed aside by the emerging economies as we are anyway!!

 

[Biohazard]

But surely you can see that keeping the UK united means we're a bigger player in the global economy, have a bigger say military wise and can cut out duplicate, wasted admin expenditure where two people would be doing the same public sector job?

If that could have happened, it should have.

Unfortunately the UK is broken, poor and debt ridden and a mere shadow of its former self.

I never understood the whole demand for independence. If you want to be seen as your own country and hate everyone then fair enough I respect your opinion.

Scottish Nationalism is really nothing like English or the hi-jacked BNP style British Nationalism.

It isn't borne from hate.

It might be wrong economically but you have your reasons. However, you don't dislike the English so I'm not sure why you'd even want independence. Such a waste of money. It wouldn't help anyone.

The UK is in debt and if we stay as we are the UK will sink; with all of us aboard.

 

[Biohazard]

The whole thing about Scotland being independant, we would have no need to be involved in military debates as we would effectively be Swizerland.

A nice comparison, I also think Scotland would become a financial powerhouse of Europe

Given how peaceful Scotland is in this regards, I think retracting from global conflict would suit Scotland fine.

England wont let go of Scotland, Northern Ireland or Wales without a huge fight anyway, how many lives have been lost over Ireland in the past 100 years? Thats the main worry, if we were independant we could well end up in as much of a mess as Ireland or Iceland is.

Ireland - not in the slightest, why after complete seperation would Scottish people start bombing the English?

Iceland - it was mooted as an example of small independent states, not so much as a direct mirror. I would point to the Scandinavian countries for true comparisons...

 

[Biohazard]

What would the difference be if Scotland were independent? Would all of the countries suddenly flourish?

I know it sounds a bit wild, but yes.

Without the UK overheads, Scotland would at least to start with.

Depending on how England dealt with the collapse of not just the empire but the Union also, they could pull back up. English debt is just as bad as Scottish debt, and the reason we both have debt is the 'UK'.

Not really true. Theres a huge section of Scottish Nationalists that is borne from hate.

Yes really, and that is unquantifiable nonsense and you know it.

So has Scotland overnight had a landslide movement to HATRED?

Really?

So, just let England sink on its own basically?

If it didn't sort itself out it would have an effect on the other nations, so no.

I wouldn't want to see my neighbours struggle?

It's a shame that those neighbours themself don't really care about anyone else however. But the intent is true and honest, not xenophobic.

 

[Biohazard]

Evocative statement with no basis. Come on, you're better than that.

It isn't meant to be evocative, it is a genuine statement.

It has basis, I've covered it many times so have thousands of others.

The UK decline as been on going for nearly 60 years, if not longer.

It failed to deal with the decline when it should; and in trying to deny and hide it they indebted us for generations.

 

[Biohazard]

The debt won't just go away if we get split up.

No but we could position ourself to get rid of it.

We'd have two people doing the same job which one person can do. That's inefficient and produces more spending on public sector, a net remover from the economy.

Which the UK suffers already from greatly?

I'm not seeing much benefit at the present for the status quo..

Then there's the currency, would you use the Euro? Even Germany wants to get out of the Euro. If you use the pound England would set the rates as normal.

Scottish pound pegged to English.

If Scotland stopped spending so much money on public services then you'd pay off the debt quicker.

It doesn't work like that, Scotland has no debt to pay for as we are.

The UK does.

 

[Biohazard]

There's a man on the telly having a stroke atm. It's not a very pretty language is it?

RACIST!!!!

 

[Biohazard]

How did the Priate Party get on??

 

[Biohazard]

So resolve that by voting for a party willing to remove inefficiency, rather than split the countries up and promote it.

The only people to do that are the Tories in Westminster, and after how the treated Scotland in the 80's no one here will touch them again.

This is why this is the only available option to Scotland.

Essentially if Westminster had been kinder to Scotland as a percieved largely irrelevent backwater Celtic fringe we might not be in this situation, but again Westminster is VERY good at reinforcing it's own decline by refusing to move forward with progression.

I'm very much so a believer in the Hong Kong model (not quite to that extreme in implementation) but that's a whole other debate.

I believe in neoliberal economics; but the HK example isn't great.

It has the worst rich/poor divide in the world.

It's other achievements away from that are still admirable.

I just think your economic reasons don't really stand up. The UK debt would be split up and you'd inherit your share.

They do, oh yes they do.

The UK economically can't even pull a twitch.

 

[Biohazard]

There is nothing to suggest all the countries would flourish seperately.

Yes there is.

There is also every indication the UK will continue to drown in debt.

Why do you continue to try putting words into other peoples mouths, where did I say there was an overnight landslide into hatred? There always has been Nationalists who hate the English, there always will be, just as there is the same in England.

It isn't an exlusive problem to the nationalist party, and it largely unquantifiable. I've not encounted much in the party, but people on doorsteps - yes.

But, I see no reason to draw xenophobia in as England has a worse problem with it than Scotland does.

Ill tell you what, you wear an England football strip this weekend, and tell me on Monday whether its all a myth.

You wear the Scotland top in London then, because I don't even have to be so blatent to get abuse so I have no idea why you are pulling up a circular event that exists regardless of political nationalism.

To be fair to you, these are the kind of people shown below that would vote for an independant Scotland chiefly because they are bigots rather than having reasonable opinions which can be discussed such as we are having today, I hold no grudges against people who want an independant Scotland without a bigoted agenda.

You get bigoted people, on all sorts of levels. It isn't representative of a positive civic scotland politically.

The basic fact is, you dont know whether we would flourish or not, nationalists will peddle that line, are Ireland flourishing? Is Iceland flourishing?

We would not be continuing down the path we are.

What is the alternative, stay in the Union and stay in debt? Something has to give, and Westminster isn't very good at dancing to new tunes...

We would be up the same creek as any other european country at the moment whether we were part of Britain or an independent Scotland.

You are not that far away from 'the' logical jump tbh.

 

[Biohazard]

SNP GET A MAJORITY IN SCOTLAND!

Woohoo, sorry guys I'm not interested in this thread anymore I'm away off out to party catch you all later.

 

[Biohazard]

Well, show me it then please.

Open your eyes and accept reality, perhaps?

Show me the evidence that we would flourish as an independent country

I'm bit bored of repeating myself ad nuesium on this (not today but generally); SO to save me copying and pasting if you are genuinely interested on my opinion search SC for the topical words under my username the threads will quickly become apparent. The Scottish Government also have some interesting figures if you wish to browse them.

Bring back to here what ever question you wish I will give you the answer, but it's about time you done some work yourself instead of throwing simple question after question in the vain hope that one somehow 'sticks'.

and show me the evidence that staying united will continue to drown us in debt.

History.

But, to turn the tables slightly.

Are you a deficit denier? Do you acknowledge the historic decline in the UK financial position and economic makeup?

Can you show me that the UK will NOT continue to die a death of debt?

Because that is the long term reality of the UK.

 

[Biohazard]

Lol, ask a question he cant answer and he leaves.

Bitter wee racist unionist can't handle a bit of fun.

Big shock that is Mark, you a bit depressed in Paisley today son?