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***THE BF4 BENCHMARKS THREAD***

Hmm 70 minimum fps seems to be the number everyone is getting then. That aint too bad to be fair considering it is a tank explosion but it will still be a noticeable judder. I think i will sit until the end of July and see what Tonga rumors are for August.

I would love to milk out 30% more from those 290X scores. It would be perfect for BF4 with win 8.1 and my Killer 2100. I do not think there is anything left i could buy to raise minimums even more. It is a pain in the butt probably the hardest thing to do in PC gaming is doubling the min fps. You can end up waiting 2 years if you look at the history of releases and the difference in minimums.
 
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humbug said:
In MP: Ultra IQ with 2x MSAA just to take the sting out of jaggies, no post AA as it blurs the image. aside from that its just an unnecessary drain on performance.
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Utra settings with x4 msaa mate, i do turn off motion blur as it gives me dizzy spells. I cant stand that in a game, harks back to crysis 1. My res is 1920x1200, now ive tried bf4 on my spec in sig and my nephews 3570k setup with a 290. A few months ago the 290 based system did feel a bit better under mantle. Higher minimum fps. But with the changes coming from CTE, bf4 is playing quite nice via dx.

Ive read/heard some people on various forums i frequent giving dx a lot of ****ging, most of them who were more than happy with games under dx for years. Just because mantle came out they now think dx is rubbish yet it was used for so long. Personally myself mate, i like the idea of mantle, decrease cpu usage, less need to oc your cpu, (as much as i like that). Personally id like to see nvidia adopt mantle, but thats too much of a perfect world scenario.:)
 
setter said:
Utra settings with x4 msaa mate, i do turn off motion blur as it gives me dizzy spells. I cant stand that in a game, harks back to crysis 1. My res is 1920x1200, now ive tried bf4 on my spec in sig and my nephews 3570k setup with a 290. A few months ago the 290 based system did feel a bit better under mantle. Higher minimum fps. But with the changes coming from CTE, bf4 is playing quite nice via dx.

Ive read/heard some people on various forums i frequent giving dx a lot of ****ging, most of them who were more than happy with games under dx for years. Just because mantle came out they now think dx is rubbish yet it was used for so long. Personally myself mate, i like the idea of mantle, decrease cpu usage, less need to oc your cpu, (as much as i like that). Personally id like to see nvidia adopt mantle, but thats too much of a perfect world scenario.:)
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Even though i do give DX a bit of stick myself, it is unfair i guess.

But if it never existed then you don't know, suddenly Mantle is here and everything feels like it never has before, now when you go or look back it doesn't feel nice.
People can get quite passionate, especially when people spend a lot of money on their systems, including the CPU to get supper performance suddenly find that actually they are not getting that at all because this DX thing has been holding their systems back, the same works for people who can't afford to spend much on those systems suddenly find that they don't need to, its only because of this DX thing again that their performance for their money is rubbish.
 
Perhaps mate it shows how much DX has been a limiting factor, personally i call it lazy development, and maybe ms sitting back on their laurels having owned the gpu api market for so long. Mantle is a kick up the bum that has maybe/hopefully made ms sit up and take notice. But we wont know until dx12 comes out. But ill say this, theres interesting times ahead for users of either gpu camp, stuff like free sync, g sync etc. Lots for us all to look forward too.:)
 
setter said:
Perhaps mate it shows how much DX has been a limiting factor, personally i call it lazy development, and maybe ms sitting back on their laurels having owned the gpu api market for so long. Mantle is a kick up the bum that has maybe/hopefully made ms sit up and take notice. But we wont know until dx12 comes out. But ill say this, theres interesting times ahead for users of either gpu camp, stuff like free sync, g sync etc. Lots for us all to look forward too.:)
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Absolutely :)
 
humbug said:
Even though i do give DX a bit of stick myself, it is unfair i guess.

But if it never existed then you don't know, suddenly Mantle is here and everything feels like it never has before, now when you go or look back it doesn't feel nice.
People can get quite passionate, especially when people spend a lot of money on their systems, including the CPU to get supper performance suddenly find that actually they are not getting that at all because this DX thing has been holding their systems back, the same works for people who can't afford to spend much on those systems suddenly find that they don't need to, its only because of this DX thing again that their performance for their money is rubbish.
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The trouble with this statement is variety. Mantle is in BF4 and Thief and as far as Thief goes, when you get to 1440P resolution and higher, Mantle starts to lose out or run a single card and again, Mantle starts to lose out, even at 1080P. You only have to look at the Thief thread you run for evidence of that or ask Kaap/read Kaaps findings. He has had problems in Mantle games with VRAM at 4K. The same could be said for BF4 but as we only have reviewers to rely on, everything can be taken with a pinch of salt. Check out several different reviewers for several different results and there is a PCPer article that gets bandied about quite a bit showing nVidia in a bad light. Sure I don't have a problem with that but if you look a page or so back, my video of a 30+ minute game does show how smooth the game runs.

I have said it several times about being happy if nVidia adopted Mantle and I seriously mean it. I feel less CPU usage and higher GPU usage would be great. I doubt it would happen but nVidia do have gamers interests to consider and it wouldn't do them any harm for PR reasons if they took it on.... That is of course if Mantle does become a truly open source API. I just wish there was a bench for BF4 to see who is fastest. I honestly don't care but it would nip a lot of arguments early on :)
 
Gregster said:
Check out several different reviewers for several different results and there is a PCPer article that gets bandied about quite a bit showing nVidia in a bad light. Sure I don't have a problem with that but if you look a page or so back, my video of a 30+ minute game does show how smooth the game runs.
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I watched your video Greg and to me the green line looked quite spiky, indicating that those frames are taking longer to render than the previous one which is probably what shows up as hitching and stuttering when we use the perfoverlay command or when pcper do their FCAT testing. The yellow line can normally be ignored with spiking as this is normally network/game/packet loss related and is nothing to do with the gpu side of things. When i use DX on my crossfire setup it behaves similarly to your green line. Under Mantle though the green line is flat and it never budges from that ensuring you such a more consistent and fluid gameplay experience. It's one of those things you'll notice under multi gpu if you try one, then immediately try the other afterwards.

It's hard to show you an exact example of what i see with Mantle in game because i have to record in windowed mode which means im throwing away 25+% scaling per gpu and i have the performance hit from recording/encoding on the fly, which is not the performance hit free H264 codec you get to use with Shadowplay.

Looking at the rendering line in my video below and it will show you why those pcper graphs look like they do. Mantle a thick, spike free flat line and DX offering moments of smoothness followed by random hitching for no discernible reason at all. When you switch between the two, you notice it.



X8cqsDl.png

JCAhzUm.png


Although AMD's DX variance is slightly lower, even that has spikes which i see similar to your video when i use DX.
 
I wasn't watching the green line Matt, I watched the gameplay and did it look like it was having hitching/stutters or unsmooth gamplay? If it did, I missed it but happy to watch it again if you thought it did.
 
Gregster said:
I wasn't watching the green line Matt, I watched the gameplay and did it look like it was having hitching/stutters or unsmooth gamplay? If it did, I missed it but happy to watch it again if you thought it did.
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Hard to tell from a 30fps video. If you can upload it in 60fps im sure it will be easier to spot. I'm going on the spikes i see on the green line, that is what shows up as variance and or hitching in those pcper graphs and that's as a result of inconsistency in the time taken to render the frame coupled with the frame pacing implementation Nvidia use. I don't blame Nvidia or AMD for that, i blame the API. You might not notice it, that's fine i never used to until i tried Mantle. It's only once you can switch between the two can you feel the difference.
 
LtMatt said:
Hard to tell from a 30fps video. If you can upload it in 60fps im sure it will be easier to spot. I'm going to on the spikes i see on the green line, that is what shows up as variance and or hitching in those pcper graphs. You might not notice it, that's fine i never used to until i tried Mantle. It's only once you can switch between the two can you feel the difference.
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Well 30fps would still show up where it isn't smooth. I have seen many vids of gameplay that are terrible but feel free to disect my vid and point out places where it isn't smooth. :)


I am more than happy for anyone else to point out where it isn't smooth as well. I am old and might miss the hitching and stuttering that might be there :D
 
Geeman1979 said:
I don't need no graphs to tell me what's running smooth or not. If visually a games running smooth on screen that's all I'm interested in.
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+1 and graphs you can sit and study later often have no real bearing on your game play
Eg LT saw nothing below iirc 140ish? fps on one of his runs frame thingy says 70ish which had no real effect on his game and he never noticed it
Not having a go LT just sometimes the numbers dont effect you, othertimes they do depends how servere and for how long i guess
 
Gregster said:
Well 30fps would still show up where it isn't smooth. I have seen many vids of gameplay that are terrible but feel free to disect my vid and point out places where it isn't smooth. :)


I am more than happy for anyone else to point out where it isn't smooth as well. I am old and might miss the hitching and stuttering that might be there :D
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I'm not trying to say you're having a bad experience or you're suffering from crippling stutter. I'm merely trying to explain why those graphs look like they do and from looking at your video rendering lines i can see why they show up as variance in frame time delivery.

The green lines tell you how long the gpu's are taking to render the frame. The gpus are responsible for generating the image and managing the delivery of frames to your display. Spikes in those lines indicate that frame took longer to render than the previous and that will show itself as spiking or hitching and shows the problems that those pcper graphs show.

Unless the spike in rendering time dropped your fps below 30, which it didn't then it will not show up in your video. I'm not trying to say your video looks stuttery. Even if it did it will not show up in a video recorded at 30 fps.

Why don't you play a round of Conquest 64 large and use the command perfoverlay.framefilelogenable 1 to start and 0 to stop. That will measure your smoothness etc far better asking me to find areas of stutter in your video. :p

triss said:
+1 and graphs you can sit and study later often have no real bearing on your game play
Eg LT saw nothing below iirc 140ish? fps on one of his runs frame thingy says 70ish which had no real effect on his game and he never noticed it
Not having a go LT just sometimes the numbers dont effect you, othertimes they do depends how servere and for how long i guess
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Agreed. The point i was trying to make is you might not notice a difference when you've only tried one, it's only once you try something else you realise how much better it is. It is most apparent on multi gpu.

Geeman1979 said:
I don't need no graphs to tell me what's running smooth or not. If visually a games running smooth on screen that's all I'm interested in.
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Nothing wrong with that at all and i used to think like that too. However as above, once you try something better and switch between the two it becomes quite noticeable. Of course some people just can't sense these things, but the majority usually can. It depends how sensitive you are to stutter i guess. I find this technical aspect of it interesting personally. I like to find why it's so much smoother, why is it much more consistent. So i go in search of answers.
 
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