The OcUK Relationship Counselling and Hugs Thread

Can this not become a thread whinging about how much harder it is to have a successful relationship please, the gender politics of who wins family battles (women) and who wins employment/career stuff (men) belongs elsewhere.

It's one thing to point out that being happy alone is a healthy starting point before any new relationship, it's another to start suggesting that relationships are pointless. Not really the thread for it. :)

I don't think people are saying relationships are pointless. They just matter less than they did. People can obtain fulfilment in other ways
 
I told my now longterm partner on the 3rd or 4th date that I'm not her personal clown, jester, comedian, entertainer, banker or daddy.
I get your point here but I don’t entirely agree with the sentiment; I think that you do need to fill the roles of “Daddy, Brother, Lover and Little Boy” as may be necessary (from time to time).

“Lover” is obviously the most important and the cornerstone of it all, but it’s also comparatively a fickle and fragile relationship.

Right, drills out for the solo!!

 
Can this not become a thread whinging about how much harder it is to have a successful relationship please, the gender politics of who wins family battles (women) and who wins employment/career stuff (men) belongs elsewhere.

It's one thing to point out that being happy alone is a healthy starting point before any new relationship, it's another to start suggesting that relationships are pointless. Not really the thread for it. :)

In my opinion it moved past relationship prospects and into "relationships are pointless". A valid subject for discussion but maybe not why people come to this thread.

No one is saying that relationships are pointless. I am saying that in order to have a healthy relationship, you have to understand what makes relationships work, especially nowadays, and that involves understanding yourself and your partner, and the things that are going to come at you in life.

Since the second wave feminism movement got welded with the sexual revolution, women have been fed the idea that they can have it all. They can behave as men do, can have families and careers, can sleep around all they want, have kids with different men, and then in their thirties, still find a high value man that meets all their excessive criteria to give them the fantasy life they want. This is unrealistic and unhealthy, and makes sure that relationships are doomed to fail. Like it or not, there are double standards, ones that work both ways, because men and women (while equally valuable) are not the same. The fact is that no one can have it all, not men or women. Compromises and sacrifices are made. While you're out there driving your career, you won't see your kids growing up, while you're at home raising a family, you fall behind on your career progression. Choices are made, and paths are chosen consciously or not. People always think about the choices they didn't take, and don't realise those doors closed because of the other choices they made instead.

You've got to understand what's important in life if you ever want to find happiness within yourself, let alone with someone else. You've got to understand that relationships are not like the movies, that they evolve and change. Maybe the "spark" at the beginning goes away, but that is the time to recognise and build the deeper, long-lived relationship that evolves, instead of throwing it away in a never ending chase for the adolescent first rush of attraction. It takes a conscious effort, and if you don't understand that because you or your partner is suffering from Disney Princess syndrome, you're doomed to failure and unhappiness. People addicted to social media don't understand that it is showing a fake world that simply makes you unhappy with your own life. Women who want the cliche "6 foot tall man" don't understand that they are disregarding nine out of ten men, and fixating on a purely physical attribute that says nothing about a person's ability to be a good life-partner, and is the exact same thing that men are often criticised for.

If people can understand and address the issues in a modern relationship, then maybe they won't need to come here and post in this thread. Maybe they can have healthier relationships that last because they have an understanding of the mechanisms at work when life dips into a trough and people start to wonder what if they'd done something different, or if the grass is greener elsewhere. Instead, they should be recognising the signs, and working together to get back on track.

The first step to that is understanding that you are your own person, an individual that wants to be with someone, but is whole and complete without anyone. A person that understands themselves and the source of their own happiness in this life. A person that doesn't validate themselves through their relationship and is more than just one half of a couple. A fully rounded individual.

Let's face it, most of the people in this forum and thread are men, and we're the worst at understanding what we feel, and how to express it, let alone understanding the feelings of others, even our partners. We need all the help we can get, and it's better to have it before the relationship crashes and you have to pick up the pieces of a life that could have been kept whole with a bit of early intervention. It's important to understand the life you find yourself in, the direction you want to go in, and who you want to go there with, instead of just drifting through life and a relationship, and then be surprised when it all goes wrong before you know it.
 
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There's a girl at work who is utterly gorgeous. She's been single for ages, I have no idea how that's possible. If you asked her why, she's the kind of person who'd say, "the right guy just hasn't come along yet" and nothing more. One can only speculate. I do find it highly odd though.

Thats not odd, thats normal now:D

I saw this all the time when I was younger. The women with the "the right guy just hasn't come along yet" attitude, thinking they have all the time in the world. Then they hit 30 plus, still single, still unmarried, childless and their biological clock is ticking. They start saying "Where did all the good men go?!?!?!" Erm......they always have been there honey. Just you never paid attention to them.
 
Thats not odd, thats normal now:D

I saw this all the time when I was younger. The women with the "the right guy just hasn't come along yet" attitude, thinking they have all the time in the world. Then they hit 30 plus, still single, still unmarried, childless and their biological clock is ticking. They start saying "Where did all the good men go?!?!?!" Erm......they always have been there honey. Just you never paid attention to them.

I agree it's highly likely that she could have unrealistic standards and be hanging around for David Gandy to turn up.

Alternatively it could be poor choices and/or bad luck. I've known a couple of really decent girls who have spent a lot of time single either because they were ditched by an utter douche and left in a crappy situation, or had damaging experiences that destroyed their self-esteem. There is a degree of poor decision making in those particular cases but we're not all perfect judges of character and lovey-dovey feelings often gloss over the warning lights in our brains.

It's not all black and white.
 
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Spot on. I've been married for almost 20 years but if I were a young man nowadays there is very little likelihood I would want to get married. The risk vs reward is just too high.
I've been married for 7 years and been with the same woman for 13 years. We have two kids and tbh if I knew what I knew now before we got together about how much work and sacrifice it would be I wouldn't bother. Everything is weighted towards the female. I work my arse off to provide for the family and I'm still expected to take over when I get home. She tells me that I get a break going to work while she has the raw deal looking after the kids.

Don't even get me started on the lack of sex and intimacy. It's either, too hot, too tired, too late, don't want to. The list is endless.

I can't blame the female but they just get so wrapped up in the kids and dwell on the fact they no longer have a career and what they have missed out on that they start to build resentment for the guy and allow themselves to become consumed by it. The guy gets more and more ignored while having to stay positive and strong for the whole family. So much pressure and so much expectation and literally nothing back. You get home at 6pm, kids are ruched into bed by 7:30 and then she sits on her phone or goes to bed by 9. Weekends are better as you can spend more time and try to build the connection but there always seems like there is a level of resentment that stops those moments of real connection between the two of you.

I see it everywhere and in my opinion it's the main reason couples with young children break up.
 
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I've been married for 7 years and been with the same woman for 13 years. We have two kids and tbh if I knew what I knew now before we got together about how much work and sacrifice it would be I wouldn't bother. Everything is weighted towards the female. I work my arse off to provide for the family and I'm still expected to take over when I get home. She tells me that I get a break going to work while she has the raw deal looking after the kids.

Don't even get me started on the lack of sex and intimacy. It's either, too hot, too tired, too late, don't want to. The list is endless.
Oof that sounds like a tough spot to be in.

Whenever I feel particularly resentful or angry and it’s really grinding you down, I have found that it’s actually better to say what you think rather that keep it shut up, even if at face value it seems really destructive... it’s actually constructive. Feelings and thoughts like that are ultimately a truth... but only in the sense that you feel them now, they are not a permanent inevitability.

Being frank does upset people but life requires upsetting people, even those you love. If I upset my wife, she will be upset, my temper will dissipate... but you then rally and then you move on.

There is nothing more alienating than acting one way when you feel another. But feelings are fickle and are prone to change when emotions are expressed and dissipated.

I say this with the caveat that I am at times an extremely difficult partner and it takes a steely willingness to be robust to survive those sorts of conversations. Whilst this approach does generally work, it does not give you a free pass to be a complete bully to your wife, so do check yourself too.

Best of luck with it.
 
Oof that sounds like a tough spot to be in.

Whenever I feel particularly resentful or angry and it’s really grinding you down, I have found that it’s actually better to say what you think rather that keep it shut up, even if at face value it seems really destructive... it’s actually constructive. Feelings and thoughts like that are ultimately a truth... but only in the sense that you feel them now, they are not a permanent inevitability.

Being frank does upset people but life requires upsetting people, even those you love. If I upset my wife, she will be upset, my temper will dissipate... but you then rally and then you move on.

There is nothing more alienating than acting one way when you feel another. But feelings are fickle and are prone to change when emotions are expressed and dissipated.

I say this with the caveat that I am at times an extremely difficult partner and it takes a steely willingness to be robust to survive those sorts of conversations. Whilst this approach does generally work, it does not give you a free pass to be a complete bully to your wife, so do check yourself too.

Best of luck with it.
I've edited my original post. I've made my feelings about it clear but it ends up with her just hitting me with past attitudes and actions. It takes time to work on a relationship but people love in different ways and when you realise you've been sold a fake one where the other person couldn't care less about physical connection or not when you thought they did you are stuck. Stuck physically and mentally. You cant stop loving the person you love and want to be with.
 
I've edited my original post. I've made my feelings about it clear but it ends up with her just hitting me with past attitudes and actions. It takes time to work on a relationship but people love in different ways and when you realise you've been sold a fake one where the other person couldn't care less about physical connection or not when you thought they did you are stuck. Stuck physically and mentally. You cant stop loving the person you love and want to be with.
Sounds like neither of your needs are being met then. You are missing out on physical intimacy and playfulness, she is missing out on self-esteem from adult and professional relationships.

It isn’t necessarily a fundamental incompatibility. After all, you did marry her, so there is part of you that knows she is of qualifying caliber to be wife material for you (you can take faith in the fact that you wouldn’t of married her if you didn’t).

Maybe that’s the way you approach it then: say that to survive, both of your needs need to be met - express your thoughts, invite her to express hers and her resentments and say that, it is a big test and you want to make it work.

Or, chose not to make it work and end it. It’s a legitimate choice but I would want to thoroughly exhaust (in the true sense of that word) all alternatives first, to the extent that I humanly felt capable. You can only do what you can do.
 
No wonder #TradWife is a thing. :D

EDIT: Sorry, not having a dig, just a light-hearted reaction to all those sorts of tales of woe.
 
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No wonder #TradWife is a thing. :D

Smart*** comment aside, it's a difficult situation.

Speaking from experience.

Habits are hard to break for most people, and she now has a habit of being satisfied with not being intimate.
 
Sounds like neither of your needs are being met then. You are missing out on physical intimacy and playfulness, she is missing out on self-esteem from adult and professional relationships.

It isn’t necessarily a fundamental incompatibility. After all, you did marry her, so there is part of you that knows she is of qualifying caliber to be wife material for you (you can take faith in the fact that you wouldn’t of married her if you didn’t).

Maybe that’s the way you approach it then: say that to survive, both of your needs need to be met - express your thoughts, invite her to express hers and her resentments and say that, it is a big test and you want to make it work.

Or, chose not to make it work and end it. It’s a legitimate choice but I would want to thoroughly exhaust (in the true sense of that word) all alternatives first, to the extent that I humanly felt capable. You can only do what you can do.
Yea totally with you and that has all been done and it's better now than before. You do end up seeing the signs of slipping back into the "old" ways though and you get the feeling that a lot of the time it's just one sided and the other half of the deal seems just happy to "co exist" instead of being a real couple. Are we all just holding off the inevitable one way or the other once you get married and have kids? Are all long term relationships doomed in this modern world? It's a shame but it's clear to me that there is far too much choice and there are no real reasons to fight for a long term union between two people. Come the good and bad times.
 
Men always want their sexual needs met in a relationship and its the main reason why they go exercising their options with other women if those needs are not met in that relationship. Then the woman is sitting their clueless wondering why their man got into bed with another woman:rolleyes:
 
Yea totally with you and that has all been done and it's better now than before. You do end up seeing the signs of slipping back into the "old" ways though and you get the feeling that a lot of the time it's just one sided and the other half of the deal seems just happy to "co exist" instead of being a real couple. Are we all just holding off the inevitable one way or the other once you get married and have kids? Are all long term relationships doomed in this modern world? It's a shame but it's clear to me that there is far too much choice and there are no real reasons to fight for a long term union between two people. Come the good and bad times.
It is all ultimately a choice but I tend to think that when you find yourself in “you’re damned if you do, damned if you don’t” scenarios, whether you “do or don’t” may be a mis-focus of energy and not actually the solution to whatever agony you are experiencing (and perhaps even inflicting upon yourself). Endless second guessing, of which I am an expert, ends up with you only experiencing the negative final outcome of either choice.... potentially at the same time!!

Your energy may be better spent investing in the relationship, as agonising as that may be if you feel the love is not properly reciprocated.

Ultimately, I think you probably need to shatter your status quo in some manner, even if temporary, for you to make your current living arrangements palatable. That may involve just switching off your mind and brain for some time rather than actually changing your environment and living arrangements. Your wife also needs to make more effort with sex. If you’re both slinking off to the bathroom all the time for a fap / lady-fap then you need to break the cycle and rediscover each other.

It’s obviously not applicable to your scenario but my friend once made the following comment that is relevant to relationships and life in general:

“You can spend a whole year of suffering pining to go to Disney World for only two weeks, go there and love it. But if I was to lock you in Disney World, after two days the only thing on your mind would be your escape.”

The human mind is absurd at times!
 
Men always want their sexual needs met in a relationship and its the main reason why they go exercising their options with other women if those needs are not met in that relationship. Then the woman is sitting their clueless wondering why their man got into bed with another woman:rolleyes:

Agreed. The old-fashioned words that come to mind (to me) are:

"Loveless marriage" and the song lines "you've lost that lovin feeling..."
 
I see it everywhere and in my opinion it's the main reason couples with young children break up.

It used to be very common that people would marry young, have kids, and when they kids left home twenty years later, the parents would realise they had nothing in common, had changed from when they were young, and would split up in their mid-thirties. Now, people don't even wait for that, and women get dissatisfied and split much sooner (the file for more than 80 percent of divorces) knowing the ex-husband still has to supply their lifestyle while they raise the kids.

People let the grind of life (and it's a grind more than ever now) build up their resentments. They don't spend much time together and feel they might as well be apart. In the worst of all situations, one partner feels neglected and starts and affair because the other partner is working all hours to support the family and meet the demands of a spouse. Life burns you out if you're not careful and keep an eye on what's important.
 
It is all ultimately a choice but I tend to think that when you find yourself in “you’re damned if you do, damned if you don’t” scenarios, whether you “do or don’t” may be a mis-focus of energy and not actually the solution to whatever agony you are experiencing (and perhaps even inflicting upon yourself). Endless second guessing, of which I am an expert, ends up with you only experiencing the negative final outcome of either choice.... potentially at the same time!!

Your energy may be better spent investing in the relationship, as agonising as that may be if you feel the love is not properly reciprocated.

Ultimately, I think you probably need to shatter your status quo in some manner, even if temporary, for you to make your current living arrangements palatable. That may involve just switching off your mind and brain for some time rather than actually changing your environment and living arrangements. Your wife also needs to make more effort with sex. If you’re both slinking off to the bathroom all the time for a fap / lady-fap then you need to break the cycle and rediscover each other.

It’s obviously not applicable to your scenario but my friend once made the following comment that is relevant to relationships and life in general:

“You can spend a whole year of suffering pining to go to Disney World for only two weeks, go there and love it. But if I was to lock you in Disney World, after two days the only thing on your mind would be your escape.”

The human mind is absurd at times!
Yes good advice and something that ive already been doing. Please believe me when i say that she doesnt do the "fapping" thing. She has told me with no sense of irony that she wouldnt be bothered if she never had sex ever again. Its just not something she ever thinks about or desires.

Thats something very hard to stomach as she is a really good looking girl with a great body and personality. Shes just not interested in sex.
 
Yes good advice and something that ive already been doing. Please believe me when i say that she doesnt do the "fapping" thing. She has told me with no sense of irony that she wouldnt be bothered if she never had sex ever again. Its just not something she ever thinks about or desires.

Thats something very hard to stomach as she is a really good looking girl with a great body and personality. Shes just not interested in sex.

The truthful question is, she wouldn't be bothered if she never had sex ever again or she wouldn't be bothered if she never have sex again with YOU.....??? I would be asking her that.

Women can easily be sexually active again when you put the right man in front of them.
 
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