The OcUK Relationship Counselling and Hugs Thread

[Ayahuasca]

Rule 1: Be attractive
Rule 2: Don't be unattractive

I don't mean this in the usual sense of pure physical attraction. You have to do things that keep you attracted to each other, otherwise it's over.

Granted, you can still be attracted to one another and break up, but when you come home from work after 8+ hours and pretty much always spend the night apart watching trash TV or playing games, it seems inevitable that it's going to end.

The above scenario with ShadowMan is typical in this day and age. Be the breadwinner, have a family, raise the kids to an age where they can at least fend for themselves without being watched 24/7, and then the wife has progressed in her career and earns enough to no longer rely on the husband's income. She starts to wonder why they're still together and what she's getting out of the relationship.

Then there was the pandemic, which put a lot of strain on people's relationships and how much they could stand being around eachother...

 

[413x]

Rule 1: Be attractive
Rule 2: Don't be unattractive

I don't mean this in the usual sense of pure physical attraction. You have to do things that keep you attracted to each other, otherwise it's over.

Granted, you can still be attracted to one another and break up, but when you come home from work after 8+ hours and spend the night apart watching trash TV or playing games, it seems inevitable that it's going to end.

The above scenario with ShadowMan is typical in this day and age. Be the breadwinner, have a family, raise the kids to an age where they can at least fend for themselves without being watched 24/7, and then the wife has progressed in her career and earns enough to no longer rely on the husband's income. She starts to wonder why they're still together and what she's getting out of the relationship.

Then there was the pandemic, which put a lot of strain on people's relationships and how much they could stand being around eachother...

I kind of agree.
Its so easy to spend the evening alone. Or doing something passive like watching the TV... Same as being alone.
Sure there are going to be many days when this happens. Especially if you have responsibilities like kids and/or you are I introverts.


I feel it's important to at least have 1 or 2 during the week things. Even if it's just making a meal together. Something that isn't "alone". We have DnD (in person) and try to make time once a week during the week for something else. But it doesn't always happen. But at the weekend for sure. Usually a walk or something with the dogling.


If you live together but in your own it's very easy for routine bordem to set in.


I expect it takes extra effort with kids. As it's hard enough without.

 

[ShadowMan]

Pretty much and that much I understand. What I don't get is the complete lack of communication to discuss it and make change. She never talked about it or came up with ideas. It was a 2 way thing and I honestly feel she gave up a long time before I did with any effort. She had her shows, her phone and her nights out with friends at weekends when I would sort the kids. I had golf on Saturdays and then the youngest had football at the same time. It all works against but to make it work it does take 2 to make an effort and talk about problems.

As I told her. We didn't have a marriage problem or a relationship problem. We had a communication problem which should have been solved. She just didn't want to talk about how she feels and here we are.

 

[randomshenans]

It’s taking time to adjust. I used to happily do everything I could for her. Can’t turn that off quickly. Especially when kids involved and she has no backup plans or support.

One thing I would say, having felt like this. I contorted myself any which way to try and be what and who my ex needed and it was at the cost of me and my own self identity.
Take some time to not try and please anyone else but yourself. Learn to love yourself and find yourself, because that's the main foundation of everything in life.

 

[randomshenans]

I feel it's important to at least have 1 or 2 during the week things. Even if it's just making a meal together. Something that isn't "alone". We have DnD (in person) and try to make time once a week during the week for something else. But it doesn't always happen. But at the weekend for sure. Usually a walk or something with the dogling.

I think a lot of couples have lost their ability to communicate with one another.
We often get into arguments because attempting to communicate how one another is taken personally by the other and becomes a back and forth of who has it worse, when you both are in fact, missing something but can't articulate effectively what that is.

 

[413x]

I think a lot of couples have lost their ability to communicate with one another.
We often get into arguments because attempting to communicate how one another is taken personally by the other and becomes a back and forth of who has it worse, when you both are in fact, missing something but can't articulate effectively what that is.

Over last 6 months we've worked on this a lot. It started with a lot of clearing the air and arguing. A lot of old issues or issues in background brought up.

We've made a vicious effort to bring up niggles earlier. So far it's working well and the relationship is much better than us been for a while. I think as we both genuinely want it to work we are both keen to put the effort in. We are both introverts so it does take effort.

 

[valve90210]

I think a lot of couples have lost their ability to communicate with one another.
We often get into arguments because attempting to communicate how one another is taken personally by the other and becomes a back and forth of who has it worse, when you both are in fact, missing something but can't articulate effectively what that is.

I think you're right there.

Sadly in my relationship, we communicated really well and worked on things that weren't right but in the end the little differences were too much for my ex to cope with and the chance to continue to work on them went away which is heart-breaking.

 

[Vidar]

@ShadowMan I'm sorry pal this is going to.sound harsh as I don't believe in pulling punches but you did have a marriage problem and you are looking at this the wrong way. She has been communicating with you from the start, it's just not been in words necessarily and you've not been paying attention to the signs. The very first time this happened you should have realised you were probably on borrowed time. You've been shown what the signs are and should have begun to prepare. She wasn't happy with you, or how the relationship was going so you fell into the trap of trying to do more for her etc trying to be the better husband nice guy. It's the logical thing to do, especially as most single women or divorcees all say what they really want is a good guy who will treat them right etc when there's probably a thousand plus men just like that in their lives they're just not attracted to. I hate all this alpha red pill stuff but a lot of it is true unfortunately when you're speaking in generalities. You couple this with all the modern feminist massaging that they don't need no man etc and you've got a recipe for disaster. The fact that your ex now has a very good job and her own money etc and can afford fancy things she's now thinking in that girl boss way and as I believe you've said in the past has a friendship circle who encourage that because misery loves company.

I promise in a few short years when the fear of dying alone sets in and she's realised just how hollow her life is because none of the hook ups want to marry a single mum in her 30's or 40's etc and she'll get hit with a major dose of reality. You've just got make sure you're not an option for her.

 

[413x]

Pretty much and that much I understand. What I don't get is the complete lack of communication to discuss it and make change. She never talked about it or came up with ideas. It was a 2 way thing and I honestly feel she gave up a long time before I did with any effort. She had her shows, her phone and her nights out with friends at weekends when I would sort the kids. I had golf on Saturdays and then the youngest had football at the same time. It all works against but to make it work it does take 2 to make an effort and talk about problems.

As I told her. We didn't have a marriage problem or a relationship problem. We had a communication problem which should have been solved. She just didn't want to talk about how she feels and here we are.

Sounds like you both lived quite separate lives? I've not read all your posts. So sorry if that's not true.

I suppose if that is what one party realises.. And as @Vidar said, sha also doesn't need the support anymore because she earns a good wage.. Suddenly... "what is the point?" can not just come as a thought.. But she can actually do it.

If one party is bored but dependant.. A relationship can limp on. But being independent that's not the case.

 

[randomshenans]

Sadly in my relationship, we communicated really well and worked on things that weren't right but in the end the little differences were too much for my ex to cope with and the chance to continue to work on them went away which is heart-breaking.

I think that sometimes something you think is small and insignificant can end up mounting over time.

It can be anything from where you put your shoes, vs. them. One person wants it one way and another another. These can mount up over time and it ends up a list of things that annoys you about that person.

I remember my wife saying to me "Literally everything you do annoys me" which I think was funny now but at the time, it hurt and at the same time felt there were a million things I could say that annoyed me but I never brought them up because I figured it was just people and their ways.
Sometimes those things can be things you can't change about yourself, as it's just who you are and that can be too much for others to live with.

I might get on well with the ex wife now, but don't think I could ever live with her and her ways and she would never live with me that's for sure. It's hard, but sometimes these things you just can't accept in others. Sometimes you can, sometimes it's just not possible but you try and just cant find a way.

 

[randomshenans]

Over last 6 months we've worked on this a lot. It started with a lot of clearing the air and arguing. A lot of old issues or issues in background brought up.

We've made a vicious effort to bring up niggles earlier. So far it's working well and the relationship is much better than us been for a while. I think as we both genuinely want it to work we are both keen to put the effort in. We are both introverts so it does take effort.

This is great, and it's so hard. It's hard because you BOTH have to be on the same page about it, too.
My ex and myself have continued to try and improve our communication, even though we're not in a relationship, as it's just so much better for us and our new relationship as co parents. I even said to her that sometimes I feel she talks at me and doesn't appear to listen. This was not done in a bad way, but just explaining things to her. Something I would have just not said when we were together for fear of an angry response. Something I don't fear now, because nothing she can say I would take personally anyway.

 

[413x]

I think that sometimes something you think is small and insignificant can end up mounting over time.

It can be anything from where you put your shoes, vs. them. One person wants it one way and another another. These can mount up over time and it ends up a list of things that annoys you about that person.

I remember my wife saying to me "Literally everything you do annoys me" which I think was funny now but at the time, it hurt and at the same time felt there were a million things I could say that annoyed me but I never brought them up because I figured it was just people and their ways.
Sometimes those things can be things you can't change about yourself, as it's just who you are and that can be too much for others to live with.

I might get on well with the ex wife now, but don't think I could ever live with her and her ways and she would never live with me that's for sure. It's hard, but sometimes these things you just can't accept in others. Sometimes you can, sometimes it's just not possible but you try and just cant find a way.

Very true.
We are both messy. Actually having a cleaner helps in both the house has to be tidy before the cleaner comes. And also the cleaner takes a point of contention out...the cleaning.

We have started scheduling house chores in our lunch hours. And things like... There must be no clutter by Friday evening. As we both just leave stuff around the house.

Even petty things me.. "why do you always leave food in the bowl rather than emptying it?" as I do the dishwasher.
Or her.. "why do you always leave your joggers out"
So clothes that are used but not dirty so don't need washing no go in a separate area now.


One of our bigger ones was her wanting to be told about jobs I see are an issue vs me saying that simply having them on my plate to monitor is more mental hassle for me than doing them.
So I used to just do them and mentally moan about it.
Now I bring it up. And any jobs that are hers we've written down as neither is us so well just getting it done.
Sounds small and petty. But it's another thing on the list.

We both have issues around adhd symptoms, which doesn't help. But at least we both understand why we are both messy for example. Where someone else would just say it's lazy.

Hardest bit will be keeping it going and not slipping back into not discussing issues.

 

[ShadowMan]

I don't disagree with any of the above btw. In any previous conversation however I did highlight that I don't do subtle signs and promises were made we would be more open and talk but it just never happened.

Off for counselling in 30 mins. Will see how my head is after that.

The bits that screw me up the most are her comments about how she still had the future planned and saw our life together in Sept/Oct and how it all changed so quickly. We had a great holiday in August/September and were planning so much that just apparently was all a lie.

 

[valve90210]

I think that sometimes something you think is small and insignificant can end up mounting over time.

Sometimes those things can be things you can't change about yourself, as it's just who you are and that can be too much for others to live with.

It's hard, but sometimes these things you just can't accept in others. Sometimes you can, sometimes it's just not possible but you try and just cant find a way.

Yeah that's exactly it, the things she gave as her reasons are things which she tried hard to accept and ok with but in the end it was just too much for her. She said herself it wasn't anything I did in particular, just the way I am, too negative, not motivated enough, not social enough etc, which are all things she is. They are things I've been working on for years and truly she wouldn't recognise the person I was 10 years ago but I'm still not where she would have liked. It's so hard because she has said she didn't want to change me but that's just the thing, I do want to change me and have been trying hard to do so and I can't shake the feeling that had I worked harder, maybe things would still be ok (even though I know that's very unlikely). I know in time I'll feel better and will rebuild and continue to work on myself but right now I just feel so sad.

 

[valve90210]

I don't disagree with any of the above btw. In any previous conversation however I did highlight that I don't do subtle signs and promises were made we would be more open and talk but it just never happened.

Off for counselling in 30 mins. Will see how my head is after that.

The bits that screw me up the most are her comments about how she still had the future planned and saw our life together in Sept/Oct and how it all changed so quickly. We had a great holiday in August/September and were planning so much that just apparently was all a lie.

Hope you have a good counselling session, try to give yourself time afterwards and be gentle on yourself, it can be incredibly helpful but it also can stir everything up dramatically.

 

[413x]

I don't disagree with any of the above btw. In any previous conversation however I did highlight that I don't do subtle signs and promises were made we would be more open and talk but it just never happened.

Off for counselling in 30 mins. Will see how my head is after that.

The bits that screw me up the most are her comments about how she still had the future planned and saw our life together in Sept/Oct and how it all changed so quickly. We had a great holiday in August/September and were planning so much that just apparently was all a lie.

Have a good session.

Lie or not. The "I saw a life together" is mean and vindictive. There's no need to say that if you've made the decision its over.
It may have been a lie or not. Sometimes things do change quickly. Final straw stuff. Or people wait until after Xmas etc.

 

[Roar87]

There are women out there who will genuinely stay with a partner they aren't in love with just to have children, then when the kids get to a certain age they move on. I was speaking to a woman for quite a while 2 years ago who broke up with her boyfriend of 15 years or something, she told me she never loved him and stayed with him because she wanted to have kids in her mid to late 20s and that's the best time for women to have kids, she cares about the guy at a basic human level but there was no romantic love on her part. He was basically used as a sperm donor and had no clue she wasn't happy, but ultimately she was never truly happy with him because she didn't love him.

Another thing I've learned about women is that if you don't meet their emotional needs then they'll usually find someone who does meet them. For men it's obviously other needs that will stop us finding someone who meets them.

 

[413x]

There are women out there who will genuinely stay with a partner they aren't in love with just to have children, then when the kids get to a certain age they move on. I was speaking to a woman for quite 2 years ago who broke up with her boyfriend of 15 years or something, she told me she never loved him and stayed with him because she wanted to have kids in her mid to late 20s and that's the best time for women to have kids, she cares about the guy at a basic human level but there was no romantic love on her part. He was basically used as a sperm donor and had no clue she wasn't happy, but ultimately she was never truly happy with him because she didn't love him.

Another thing I've learned about women is that if you don't meet their emotional needs then they'll usually find someone who does meet them. For men it's obviously other needs that will stop us finding someone who meets them.

That is grim.

I actually know someone I suspect was similar. But I can't be sure.

They got together very quickly. Had kids very quickly. He left his gf (probably got best) for her.
He's one of those people who has done really well for himself at work.. But in his personal life seemed controlled by a partner.

Anyway. They have 2 kids in 3 years. And then I find out she's broken up with him. They always seemed an odd pair.
Really all she wanted (and openly talked about it) was kids. She loved kids. To me she has found a solid, guy. He earnt good money. Great for kids if that was the plan all along.

I distinctly remember being in car with her (let's call her X) and another female friend (let's call her Y) . Y said she really wanted kids but the bf she was with was non commiting .. X then said "just get pregnant from him, spike a hole in it or something".
She was semi serious. That's the worst thing. I was disgusted. And said as much.

 

[malachi]

That is grim.

I actually know someone I suspect was similar. But I can't be sure.

They got together very quickly. Had kids very quickly. He left his gf (probably got best) for her.
He's one of those people who has done really well for himself at work.. But in his personal life seemed controlled by a partner.

Anyway. They have 2 kids in 3 years. And then I find out she's broken up with him. They always seemed an odd pair.
Really all she wanted (and openly talked about it) was kids. She loved kids. To me she has found a solid, guy. He earnt good money. Great for kids if that was the plan all along.

I distinctly remember being in car with her (let's call her X) and another female friend (let's call her Y) . Y said she really wanted kids but the bf she was with was non commiting .. X then said "just get pregnant from him, spike a hole in it or something".
She was semi serious. That's the worst thing. I was disgusted. And said as much.

Reason why we have so many single mothers these days, raising kids with no father or part time father around. Then they wonder why their kids grow up to be all werid. Obviously, not all women are like this but more and more kids are being raised in an single parent household. It's a shame.

 

[BeadyRoller]

I'm in a massive cycle of "the grass is greener" at the moment and I can't seem to get out of it even though I know deep down it's not what I want.... I think. Haven't got a clue what I want from life and it's scary.