***The Official Forza Motorsport 3 Thread***
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Soldato
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Its not beautiful, too big but I say that having not ridden in one
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I will be the first to admin, but in no way is it "ugly".
The Veyron is not a large car. A lot of people seem to think it is because all they have ever seen is pictures of it on it's own. There are far larger cars.
Associate
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I agree. I don't think it's beautiful, it's got more of a fat brute look about it. There are much better looking cars.
What Im curious about is still the lack of info or details on how this game will continue after FM2 to please racing fans, not just drifter or painters, video editors, kids grannies or grandads with one button play.
This is also going to be a racing game still isnt it?
Im aware of more upgrades, more cars, more tracks, more polys, more texture detail, more races, more variety. Im also aware of cockpit view, rewind, barrell rolls, tyre deformation, physics data from Mclaren and Michelin, hell Im even aware of how great their water physics were modelled.
However.....
We hear on numerous occasions of how "phscyed T10 are" Im not being a pain in the ass here, this was one of my first concerns on this thread and here we are 3 months now after the E3 announcement.
On a positive note we know the game supports clutch now and on the wheel its meant to be full analogue controlled with H shifter support and 900 degrees but this will effect very few users that buy a Fantec Wheel.
Is anyone else insterested in knowing or even the slightest bit curious of how FM3 improves as a racer:
Id like to see game enchancements like these if possible
Still so much we dont know about yet...
This is also going to be a racing game still isnt it?
Im aware of more upgrades, more cars, more tracks, more polys, more texture detail, more races, more variety. Im also aware of cockpit view, rewind, barrell rolls, tyre deformation, physics data from Mclaren and Michelin, hell Im even aware of how great their water physics were modelled.
However.....
We hear on numerous occasions of how "phscyed T10 are" Im not being a pain in the ass here, this was one of my first concerns on this thread and here we are 3 months now after the E3 announcement.
On a positive note we know the game supports clutch now and on the wheel its meant to be full analogue controlled with H shifter support and 900 degrees but this will effect very few users that buy a Fantec Wheel.
Is anyone else insterested in knowing or even the slightest bit curious of how FM3 improves as a racer:
- How is AI improved to be more challenging, we know FM2 was flawed.
- On a technical level how has the physics been upgraded
- If a user has the Turbo S wheel will they gain a speed advantage if they can master the wheel with all aids off.
- How has Turn 10 implemented that pad, X360 wheel and Turbo S wheel will or will not give an advantage or disadvantage
- Do online leaderboards now have the facility to report the control method
- Can leaderboards of wall riders, shortcut laps be reported to be removed when verified
- Does damage now feature improved or different damage/handling
- Penalty system, ramming how will this be tackled.
- Sector times, are players sector times and lap times displayed after races
- Are best laps after races highlighted to let players compare
- Does upgrades also change the interiors of the cars
- Ghost cars, is their any feature that allows multiple ghost cars to be raced against in TT mode. Ill explain, say the same car but with different tunning this would give a visual performance of how each car setup compares
Id like to see game enchancements like these if possible
Still so much we dont know about yet...
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By the looks of that video every single car in the game will have it's own set of working gauges with correct RPM limits etc! I think someone earlier in the thread asked if each car would have this - there's your answer!
I can't wait for this game!!
Amazing how things change. I remember when Forza 2 came out, the devs said there was no way they could implement dashboard views, instruments and interiors, due to the limitations of the 360.
Guess what they meant is they didn't know how to.
Glad they found the skills, deffo prefer in car views in racing games.
Soldato
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If they programmed it all in machine code they could do realtime raytracing I bet, its all about money and time
There is a bit of information released on some points..
Lets face it, all games have flawed AI, FM2 was not the worst by a long shot, but you are right, it needed improving.. The facts so far for improvements are that AI now can make mistakes if pressured (level dependant), the difficulty of the hardest level has been increased. The AI's awareness has also been improved, they should yield much more cleanly this time.
I think this is one thing they all keep close to their chests. They mention tyre deformation (obviously), but the actual extents of this are not known, we do keep getting the claims that some aspect of the tyre deformation is not being done even on PC sims (according to the dubious Dan G). The problem is it's easy to claim tyre deformation, but how accurate and advanced this is is anyones guess. Some tidbits we've been told are that it can even allow for the tyre slipping on the wheel.. coupled with what sounds to be a reasonable attempt at tyre deformation bodes well enough, but somehow I doubt it's going to set the world alight, not that it needs to..
Oh, and collision physics has improved, you can 'lean' on other cars more realisitically (very welcome), FM2's collision physics was the same for static barriers and other cars but it generally worked OK, FM3 is reported by users to a nice step in this regard.
I think that's easy to assess.. apart from the obvious difference between a wheel (Even the MS Wheel) and a controller are the same for all games, the clutch is mappable to a button (negating the clutch pedal), the only thing I can see is the clubsport vibrating brake pedal with it's load cell design would naturally allow more consistent use of non-abs brakes?
In what way? as I say, we know the clutch is mappable to a button and it's a digital affair in operation, so what is left?
A good point, it's been talked about quite a bit, but no news so far, I'd agree it should take this into account, but the proof that some of the top drivers still use a pad seem to keep negating the idea that the wheel is dominant.
Any car contact/drafting/wheels off the course etc are uncertified in the game, the leaderboards automatically put certified times above non-certified times. There should be no instances of this occuring. I know you can report these things to T10 in the event they occur, are you then asking if they have the ability to remove individual times rather then a whole leaderboard clear? I don't know, but it would be handy, wiping leaderboards has happened in so many games lately that you do wonder why they aren't doing something about it.
The only thing mentioned is that aero is more prevalent in the damage model, but this seemed to be in FM2, so no idea what that actually translates to, I believe it's going to be largely FM2 which wasn't too bad. Visually, it does seem that the deformation has more 'detail' to it
Any contact with another car uncertifies your lap. This was mentioned in a recentish interview, and the phrase "You need to drive super clean to get a certified time" was used..
A good point, would be nice, no mention though! I liked this in Race Pro, although I would have like more detail then just 3 sectors.
Good point, I'll check some vids, but I am unsure.
Yes they do, in terms of weight reduction/roll cages at least (that's all that has been said). I doubt boost guages are added when adding turbo's though..
Would be good, but I don't think it's been mentioned and therefore unlikely.
Thanks Demon, good post.
Understandably they dont want to give everything away yet, I suppose on the sales/marketing they know that sim guys will be instant buyers anyways and perhaps why they have been promoting other areas, features of the game.
My understanding of the clutch is that its digital on the pad and likely X360 wheel but its analouge on the Turbo S with appropiate pedals. Will this make a difference?
Also if the game supports upto 900 degrees most console games use 360 degrees then you would think the extra precision from only again the Fanatec wheel in cornering might help players be smoother. I dont think the official X360 wheel has 900 degrees support. Although the best pad players can be very fast and smooth too your right many leaderboard times are by pad players. On the flip side its much quicker and easier to correct your steering on a pad with a quick instant left/right than say it would be on a wheel. Both have certain possible benifits. My reason for questioning is that if the Fanatec wheel in particular has technical advantages and if this game uses physics more akin to PC sims then those could be factors and different to how FM2 worked with controllers.
Ive read with that guy that visited T10 on the F Central forums that the clutch can be used to control your revs so Im curious to how they have implemented this and how effective it will be to play with manual clutch.
Its going to be interesting to see how it all pans out.
Understandably they dont want to give everything away yet, I suppose on the sales/marketing they know that sim guys will be instant buyers anyways and perhaps why they have been promoting other areas, features of the game.
My understanding of the clutch is that its digital on the pad and likely X360 wheel but its analouge on the Turbo S with appropiate pedals. Will this make a difference?
Also if the game supports upto 900 degrees most console games use 360 degrees then you would think the extra precision from only again the Fanatec wheel in cornering might help players be smoother. I dont think the official X360 wheel has 900 degrees support. Although the best pad players can be very fast and smooth too your right many leaderboard times are by pad players. On the flip side its much quicker and easier to correct your steering on a pad with a quick instant left/right than say it would be on a wheel. Both have certain possible benifits. My reason for questioning is that if the Fanatec wheel in particular has technical advantages and if this game uses physics more akin to PC sims then those could be factors and different to how FM2 worked with controllers.
Ive read with that guy that visited T10 on the F Central forums that the clutch can be used to control your revs so Im curious to how they have implemented this and how effective it will be to play with manual clutch.
Its going to be interesting to see how it all pans out.
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They have already mentioned a pressure system to make the AI more realistic, so you can force them into mistakes. They can also become more agressive when you are. IF this is the only improvement and is just an addition to FM", I can live with that.
They have also mentioned they've sorted the dodgy leaderboards by adding certification. You can only be sertified by getting no penalties by touching other cars and going off track etc.
I like your other points about time and sector comparisons, that would be great as well as the ghost cars. But I feel those are very niche along with the control method. I shouldn't matter who gets the fastest time with what aperatus. Some people are good with pad and vice versa. The majority will use the pad, so they're hardly going to alienate those people from the get go are they?
The Physics is the main details we're not seeing, but to be honest, detailing it will probably mean nothing to most. That's the way PR and marketing works. The real test will be a demo, which I will expect to see seeing as they're so assued of themselves and the release date.
They have also mentioned they've sorted the dodgy leaderboards by adding certification. You can only be sertified by getting no penalties by touching other cars and going off track etc.
I like your other points about time and sector comparisons, that would be great as well as the ghost cars. But I feel those are very niche along with the control method. I shouldn't matter who gets the fastest time with what aperatus. Some people are good with pad and vice versa. The majority will use the pad, so they're hardly going to alienate those people from the get go are they?
The Physics is the main details we're not seeing, but to be honest, detailing it will probably mean nothing to most. That's the way PR and marketing works. The real test will be a demo, which I will expect to see seeing as they're so assued of themselves and the release date.
This concerns me a bit as in some videos weve seen the AI car ahead go off, weve also seen AI braking going out of corners. Last thing I want is for accomplished players to be handed race wins by AI thats now programmed to drop off if you begin catching it. The 8 cars is drawback so its even more important for me that this game nails it with good AI. I dont want to be racing 1 or 2 cars after the first lap.
AI in FPS has come to a very advanced stage why cant the AI in racing games be much better now than it was 2,5 or 10 years ago. Very few racing games have really improved in this area and I hope FM3 sets a new standard.
Ideally Id like an AI that can be set to a high difficulty but monitors MY performance and adjusts to that. We need something like a track analyser that records braking level, entry speed, apex speed and exit speed of corners. If that can be programmed and monitored with each car,track and as a person improves it adjusts to ALWAYS being competitive with THAT player. Even give tolerances to set AI to be 105% 100% 90% 80% of your best laptimes. By doing features like this you not only get great AI but it would differ to each individual track and car.
Additionally why cant this be done for all players. Could Turn 10 create a database based on this player information. You could then have paramaters create and download presets from the average online times from TTs that have been uploaded. Then define these online as as easy, med or high levels of AI skill or performance. These could be created say from the average times from the top 50, then next 50 and then next 50 again to correspond to the required difficulty the player wants from the online community averages.
This would always be changing so when the general average ability increases so does the AI performance preset you could download.
Something along these lines may one day happen and have AI not like previous AI that is limited to preset paramaters/conditions like games of past generations but instead be adaptable with constant realtime changing paramaters that monitor player performance.
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The AI cars there were spinnong off cause the demos had it on the very easiest level, where you're racing against barely trained simpletons who are salivating uncontrollably as they drive whilst using their one good eye to line up the corner, thats almost been overshown to show the fact that "Look, the AI does fudge up!" just putting it on easy is a way to accentuate that and have the AI emulate my driving
I'm pretty sure hard will be hard, but harder than hard in FM2, AI will be more agressive, but in a rational, welcomed way, pressuring you hard and not giving you an inch to think, not rear ending you like you some drunken chav (aka some of my FM2 moments
)8 cars is generally more or less enough in this style game, I played on GT5 Prologue last night, and was 16 cars nice, yes, but every corner you brake for the framerate shivers and crawls for a few seconds, the first 8 are passable in a corner or 2, if you have 8 cars in the race instead of 16, the difficulty can afford to be ramped up more, as you have less people to go by and the game "allows" them to realistically fight and jostle for positions more as they themselves are "more" of the race.
All of this...is IMHO, of course
Associate
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some thing i just can't do, i need to see more of the environment than that provided from behind the wheel. even then.... i'm still rubbish
some thing i just can't do, i need to see more of the environment than that provided from behind the wheel. even then.... i'm still rubbish
Yeah I have to have an 'outside' view. In car views are actually nothing like driving a car at all as you don't have any peripheral vision and can't feel any momentum of which way the car is sliding.
Tim I appreciate your comments on the videos yes being in easy mode. I wasnt wanting to reflect that this is how the game will be, more that this is what so far we have been shown.
However as we havnt seen them show the games AI in hard mode and give an example of how the AI can now be as you say more aggressive I guess we will have to speculate and at least expect a small improvement over FM2 but with the possibility of a big improvement.
All these technical improvements with graphics, audio and content are welcomed but i just hope they have been able to come up with a tougher more challenging and exciting single player experience.
However as we havnt seen them show the games AI in hard mode and give an example of how the AI can now be as you say more aggressive I guess we will have to speculate and at least expect a small improvement over FM2 but with the possibility of a big improvement.
All these technical improvements with graphics, audio and content are welcomed but i just hope they have been able to come up with a tougher more challenging and exciting single player experience.
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