What film did you watch last night?

stewski said:
More than side dish maybe but In my book T2 is never as satisfying a follow to Terminator up as Aliens is to Alien.
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No, but they're very different flavours of film :)
One is pure tense horror, the other is action with a bit of tense horror.

They both offer something different and that's a good thing IMO.

ED; I suppose a similar argument could be made for T1 and T2, but I think that would be making too big a generalisation compared to Alien/Aliens.
 
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Raymond Lin said:
Some people would rank T1 highly or higher, but nobody, i have never heard anybody ever described T2 as unnecessary or a "side dish".

The problem isn't that you don't like T2 or prefer T1, the problem is I don't think you give T2 the credit it deserves.
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I can acknowledge the plaudits that T2 has received, but I can't really give it credit. I think a lot of the credit that T2 gets is because of its ease of access and appeal to a wider audience. But once you get past the superficial layer it doesn't add much, it's just an amplified version of the original.
 
It seems to me that you are all overlooking the main factor in the Terminator films, Time Travel.

T1: SkyNet need to remove JC, so they go back in time to remove the source, SC. Thanks to Arnies intervention, they fail.

T2: After failing to eliminate the source, SC, they go forward in time(15 or 16 years, from T1) and try to kill JC in his teens. They fail again, but SkyNet is activated.

So, how then, is T2 pointless, when it is a continuation of the story.
 
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Uncle Petey said:
As I said, I think T2 offers a decent continuation. The character progression of Sarah was done brilliantly and made her character a legend for one thing.

While I do think the original is the best, I think T2 deserves more than side dish status - even if it did try a bit too hard to humanise the T-800 in some respects and should've gone for a balls out 18 cert.
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An 18 certificate for the sequel would have been great, but also with a bit of creativity they could have retained the dark, bleak nature of the original with a 15 certificate.
 
Skylake. :D

Dunno about all of us overlooking the time travel aspect and thinking T2 is pointless.

Chojin said:
I can acknowledge the plaudits that T2 has received, but I can't really give it credit. I think a lot of the credit that T2 gets is because of its ease of access and appeal to a wider audience. But once you get past the superficial layer it doesn't add much, it's just an amplified version of the original.
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They are essentially chase movies, so I think that's to be expected, and it's probably one of the main reasons that haven't been able to come up with a decent sequel since T2.

I'm actually starting to warm towards Salvation for what it tried to do at least.
 
For me T2 was the start of the rot as regarded setting the basic format of any subsequent Hollywood blockbuster, but it's still a great film in it's own right because it does still have a good consistent storyline.
 
Idleman said:
It seems to me that you are all overlooking the main factor in the Terminator films, Time Travel.

T1: SkyNet need to remove JC, so they go back in time to remove the source, SC. Thanks to Arnies intervention, they fail.

T2: After failing to eliminate the source, SC, they go forward in time(15 or 16 years, from T1) and try to kill JC in his teens. They fail again, but SkyNet is activated.

So, how then, is T2 pointless, when it is a continuation of the story.
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Ahh, I can almost picture the movie execs sitting in a board room discussing how they can make a sequel of the original.

The way you described it is basically my point, that they used the same formula but shifted it a few years and changed a few characters around.
 
Uncle Petey said:
Would you be willing to say why?
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Sure - it builds more to the plot of the original film (this time around we have 'saving Sarah' and 'stopping the war' rather than just - 'run away'). Robert Patrick is a much more menacing villian - he's nightmarish. We don't have any herp derp from Kyle ("hi police officers I'm from the past, me telling you my story is really going to be the best way to get you to believe me"). The soundtrack is better. The characters are much more interesting (notably Sarah). There are the excellent menacing scenes of nuclear war. The action sequences are infinitely better - the last 30 minutes of T2 is stunning. The special effects are legendary in T2 and still look good to this day. T1 has charm but, really, looks total ass now.

It's just night and day.
 
Ok, but remember that films are subjective and that's just your opinion. It's not universal fact :)

While Robert was great as the T-1000, I think it's VERY debatable as to whether he was more menacing than Arnie in T1, never mind 'much more'.
I'd have to disagree there.

The soundtrack... While the 80's stuff may not be to everyone's taste, I think the main theme in T1 is way better than the softened up version in T2.
Play those opening credits again.
The general score in T1 is definitely of it's time though, but I think it does a superb job.

Yes, Sarah is more interesting in T2 and she/they did a great job with her progression.
She should be more interesting though after the events of T1 in which she was just a waitress plunged into that situation.

Other than that, we're mainly talking about visual things that relate to a massively higher budget and the advances in FX that were made in the 7 year gap between films.

Don't get me wrong, I do understand why people prefer T2 and that's fine.
T1 just has an edge to it that I don't get from it's glossier sequel that may be technically superior in many aspects, but just isn't for the enjoyment that it provides me in comparison.
 
Such great memories thinking back to 1991 for T2 Summer. Kind of unreal thinking about it. Couldn't get it on VHS as I was too young.
 
I remember some old friends friend who was always in camouflage gear telling me about Arnie films in the late 80s. First Arnie film due to his recommendation was Total Recall. The rubber scary mask effects I thought was terrifying back then. Thankfully T2 came around by then to change my mind about Arnold. Never saw T1/Predator until 93/94. To this day I still prefer T1. Still love T2 but the Terminator always out hunting them at night was better and more terrifying I had thought.
 
T1 and T2 have always been similar to Alien and Aliens, in my humble opinion. The first had lower budgets and were quite simple in their makeup, with old school tension? The second films had the full Hollywood treatment with all the bells and whistles.

Love the first films and love their counterparts.
 
Uncle Petey said:
Ok, but remember that films are subjective and that's just your opinion. It's not universal fact :)

While Robert was great as the T-1000, I think it's VERY debatable as to whether he was more menacing than Arnie in T1, never mind 'much more'.
I'd have to disagree there.

The soundtrack... While the 80's stuff may not be to everyone's taste, I think the main theme in T1 is way better than the softened up version in T2.
Play those opening credits again.
The general score in T1 is definitely of it's time though, but I think it does a superb job.

Yes, Sarah is more interesting in T2 and she/they did a great job with her progression.
She should be more interesting though after the events of T1 in which she was just a waitress plunged into that situation.

Other than that, we're mainly talking about visual things that relate to a massively higher budget and the advances in FX that were made in the 7 year gap between films.

Don't get me wrong, I do understand why people prefer T2 and that's fine.
T1 just has an edge to it that I don't get from it's glossier sequel that may be technically superior in many aspects, but just isn't for the enjoyment that it provides me in comparison.
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No - when I posted, I was actually posting in your opinion.... :confused: :p

With soundtrack I'm thinking specifically of the T1000 theme music / truck chase.

I think it goes way beyond just visual effects. I can barely remember any other characters from T1 other than the main three (the main police man and the doctor had very minor roles). Lots of people fleshed out more in T2. Ultimately I just don't think T1 was that great, or at the very least it's aged badly by itself... But particularly so compared to T2.

Interesting to see the comments about Alien above. I generally agree in that they are similar changes from 'gritty' to 'blockbuster' (not that T1 was particularly tense), but I'd score them as follows.

Alien *****
Aliens ****
T1 ***
T2 *****
 
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Nitefly said:
No - when I posted, I was actually posting in your opinion.... :confused: :p
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No need for that.

When you're saying that people are mental for not having the same opinion as you and that it's night and day, you're basically presenting it as a fact. One that you can't believe other people don't agree with you on.

As for the rest of your points, a sequel should expand on the original.
Why did there need to be more characters fleshed out in T1? It's about Sarah, Reece and the Terminator. Every other side character did what they needed to do.
Saying that there were more characters in the sequel doesn't make the original worse in comparison. It simply had more because that's what was required for the purpose of telling that story.

It has aged slightly badly, but only in regards to the music/effects and in terms of the fashion of the time.

Anyway, I'm not here to try and convince you to see it my way. If it's not your cuppa, then cool.
 
Nitefly said:
No - when I posted, I was actually posting in your opinion.... :confused: :p

With soundtrack I'm thinking specifically of the T1000 theme music / truck chase.

I think it goes way beyond just visual effects. I can barely remember any other characters from T1 other than the main three (the main police man and the doctor had very minor roles). Lots of people fleshed out more in T2. Ultimately I just don't think T1 was that great, or at the very least it's aged badly by itself... But particularly so compared to T2.

Interesting to see the comments about Alien above. I generally agree in that they are similar changes from 'gritty' to 'blockbuster' (not that T1 was particularly tense), but I'd score them as follows.

Alien *****
Aliens ****
T1 ***
T2 *****
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Aliens and T1 below T2 is an opinion, not one I'd advocate myself, but hey go for it.

I prefer John Carpenters - the thing to the lot of em, still T1 3 stars seems pretty harsh and Aliens goes above T2/Alien IMHO.
 
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