International Men's Day!

[Zefan]

I didn't say financial security wasn't a factor, I disagreed with what you were saying, that trying to equalise male female responsibilities was something that will improve men's mental health. Financial security being something that's achievable by most people only by women needing to find employment on the same scale as men is a problem. Encouraging society to lean more that way won't solve this problem.

 

[uksoldierboy]

@dlockers what's with all the laughing responses?

 

[D.P.]

I didn't say financial security wasn't a factor, I disagreed with what you were saying, that trying to equalise male female responsibilities was something that will improve men's mental health. Financial security being something that's achievable by most people only by women needing to find employment on the same scale as men is a problem. Encouraging society to lean more that way won't solve this problem.

In an ideal wolrd, men would work about 2.5-3 days a week, women would equally work 2.5-3 days a week, both contributing relatively equally in finances, and the men can spend another 2.5 days a week taking more responsibility of the children. Paternity leave needs to match maternity, with job guarantees for say 2 years. And implicit in this is a large reduction in total working hours. Remove the gender differences and expectations, reduce work stress

 

[Roar87]

In an ideal wolrd, men would work about 2.5-3 days a week, women would equally work 2.5-3 days a week, both contributing relatively equally in finances, and the men can spend another 2.5 days a week taking more responsibility of the children. Paternity leave needs to match maternity, with job guarantees for say 2 years. And implicit in this is a large reduction in total working hours. Remove the gender differences and expectations, reduce work stress

Is there any evidence to support the theory that removing gender differences improves outcomes?

 

[dlockers]

@dlockers what's with all the laughing responses?

A thread about men becoming almost exclusively a comparison against women. It's like buying a car by dissing what the competition is and then still being disappointed with what you've bought.

 

[Zefan]

In an ideal wolrd, men would work about 2.5-3 days a week, women would equally work 2.5-3 days a week, both contributing relatively equally in finances, and the men can spend another 2.5 days a week taking more responsibility of the children. Paternity leave needs to match maternity, with job guarantees for say 2 years.

Says who? Star Trek utopia fever dreamers?

 

[Maccy]

A thread about men becoming almost exclusively a comparison against women. It's like buying a car by dissing what the competition is and then still being disappointed with what you've bought.

Mmmm could be seen as trolling, certainly to some of the posts in here. And you've done it in serious threads before, pack it in please.

 

[D.P.]

Is there any evidence to support the theory that removing gender differences improves outcomes?

yes, that is one of the main differences in suicide rates apart from things like access to guns.

Mothers are more likely to think of the consequences of suicide on their children while many men sadly don't see themselves as important to the family and children's welfare. Financial stress is a big factor and society unfairly puts the burden on men so some they feel that they are primary breadwinner.
Remove these factors and male (and female) suicide rates would drop and there would be smaller differences in outcome

 

[Richie]

In an ideal wolrd, men would work about 2.5-3 days a week, women would equally work 2.5-3 days a week, both contributing relatively equally in finances, and the men can spend another 2.5 days a week taking more responsibility of the children. Paternity leave needs to match maternity, with job guarantees for say 2 years. And implicit in this is a large reduction in total working hours. Remove the gender differences and expectations, reduce work stress

I'd love for that to happen... I do see an issue in a lot of job roles however - bricklayers, oil rig workers, roadworkers or roofers, for example, so it may take a while for what you suggest to happen.

I'll give you the fact that you said "in an ideal World" but it wont ever happen unless you believe all job roles can be fulfilled in the manner you state?

 

[Roar87]

yes, that is one of the main differences in suicide rates apart from things like access to guns.

Mothers are more likely to think of the consequences of suicide on their children while many men sadly don't see themselves as important to the family and children's welfare. Financial stress is a big factor and society unfairly puts the burden on men so some they feel that they are primary breadwinner.
Remove these factors and male (and female) suicide rates would drop and there would be smaller differences in outcome

I think women will always look for men to be the masculine provider in a relationship, it's an attractive quality. Men actively look for feminine caring women. Wanting men and women to be the same is a futile exercise. I think a better plan is to talk to men who are struggling and help them, not try and remove and demonise gender roles. Also, a lot of men in their 20s commit suicide, I find it hard to believe this is all about financial stress. Is there any evidence for what you're saying?

 

[uksoldierboy]

A thread about men becoming almost exclusively a comparison against women. It's like buying a car by dissing what the competition is and then still being disappointed with what you've bought.

You're talking like we've turned into some sort of competition, I can't see that at all, merely debating the sad differences between the sexes, from studies and experiences.

I assume you're a grown man, have a discussion with us if you want, but don't just give serious posts, in a serious thread a laughing emotion.

That's what kids and **** arses do.

Be better than that.

 

[gingergundog]

You're talking like we've turned into some sort of competition, I can't see that at all, merely debating the sad differences between the sexes, from studies and experiences.

I assume you're a grown man, have a discussion with us if you want, but don't just give serious posts, in a serious thread a laughing emotion.

That's what kids and **** arses do.

Be better than that.

The funny thing is the OP was only talking about mens issues, women never even entered the conversation until it was taken off topic.

 

[dlockers]

The funny thing is the OP was only talking about mens issues, women never even entered the conversation until it was taken off topic.

The op was good.

 

[GGizmo]

if this wasn't such a serious subject this would be a hilariously bad take on the discourse , which from all your other hilariously wrong takes in pretty much ever thread should vole as no surprise.

A mark of insecurity is when you start throwing around personal insults. I've been very restrained with you.

The problem is people like you not wanting to treat the causes but throw around misleading figures without understanding because it suits your agenda.

How are my figures misleading? We were talking about suicide figures and I posted the Samaritans official figures, plus another site showing graphics. How can that be misleading!?

No one is trying to derail the thread, stop trying to shutdown the debate

You've tried to derail the thread twice by talking about attempted suicides to reduce the ratio. Then for whatever reason start saying I'm transphobic.

You are totally in the wrong in your approach to this thread. Stop digging.

 

[NZXT30]

Yep, could talk about men's issues all day, how I've been affected by them (quite a lot), and how society treats them (disrespectfully). I'll spare everyone the rant.

Sign this:

Archived Petition: Appoint a Minister for Men and Boys

Appoint a Minister for Men and Boys to address problems that either exclusively or disproportionately involve men. Issues such as: - Male Health Issues - Suicide - Educational outcomes - Rough sleeping - Involvement with the criminal justice system - Victims of violent crime

petition.parliament.uk

First petition I've ever signed. The issue is of utmost importance.

The core of the problem is in societal attitudes. This forum is ripe with people harping on about the woke, or proclaiming the importance of big biceps (literally!), or that since they are so Alpha they ignore their wife. We need to remove stereotypes of gender roles and remodel expectations, normalise discussing emotions. We need to adjust the cultural norms surrounding masculinity.

No we don't. What we need to do is stop suppressing men which starts from a very young age. Men in life need to compete in an equal playing field and to be rewarded and recognised for their incredible achievements. The benefits of that to any society are beyond measure. Masculinity is the greatest force this planet has witnessed. Men build this world and all the comforts and safety nets that everyone enjoys. Men are simply awesome.

Edit: About time we give every male a free gym membership covered by the taxpayer. Women get tons of free stuff and working out provides an endless amount of benefits to men both physically and mentally.

 

[D.P.]

First petition I've ever signed. The issue is of utmost importance.

No we don't. What we need to do is stop suppressing men which starts from a very young age. Men in life need to compete in an equal playing field and to be rewarded and recognised for their incredible achievements. The benefits of that to any society are beyond measure. Masculinity is the greatest force this planet has witnessed. Men build this world and all the comforts and safety nets that everyone enjoys. Men are simply awesome.

Edit: About time we give every male a free gym membership covered by the taxpayer. Women get tons of free stuff and working out provides an endless amount of benefits to men both physically and mentally.

A clear example of toxic masculinity which is driving male suicides. This is the exact attitude that needs stamping out.

 

[Emlyn_Dewar]

Your attitude could do with stamping out too, but we'll never see that happen. So guess we're destined to be stuck with the status quo.

 

[Zefan]

I'm surprised we haven't had some outburst from everyone's favourite misandrist Jess Phillips.

Missed this first time reading through. I think Carl Benjamin said all that needs to be said about her

Your attitude could do with stamping out too, but we'll never see that happen.

Dunno about that, we're seeing a turning tide across the world on people's feelings towards progressive ideals and a return to tradition. Think it, dream it, do it.

 

[Begbie]

A clear example of toxic masculinity which is driving male suicides. This is the exact attitude that needs stamping out.

Well I'd argue removing these roles from men is the driving of male suicide. 'toxic masculinity' isn't something that men are convinced to be like, but something that exists. So when you forcefully remove it, you create uselessness.

When men exist in traditional relationships, i.e breadwinner, long lasting marriage, children in the household. The suicide rates significantly drop.

So is masculinity the cause or the removal of it?

 

[Freakbro]

Moron's gonna moron.

Ahh right, so it's OK to call people morons @Maccy if the group is having a pile on?

Definitely not a personal attack...