The Official 'The Dark Knight Rises' Spoiler Discussion Thread...

Soldato
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They setup Blake to basically have similar detective skills as Wayne, which actually plays really well into how he could essentially be Tim Drake by another name. The reveal of his real name as Robin was, in my view, just a nod towards how he'd essentially played the role of sidekick throughout the film. A lot of the exposition around Blake's character was there mainly to show how he could be a better detective than Batman. Much like Tim Drake is in the comics. Plus John Blake and Tim Drake do sound quite alike...

In essence we got a backdoor origin story for John Blake, meaning we could quite easily have him as a new Batman or even Nightwing. Which, given that Nolan is now DC's film godfather, has to have been deliberate.
 
Soldato
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They setup Blake to basically have similar detective skills as Wayne, which actually plays really well into how he could essentially be Tim Drake by another name. The reveal of his real name as Robin was, in my view, just a nod towards how he'd essentially played the role of sidekick throughout the film. A lot of the exposition around Blake's character was there mainly to show how he could be a better detective than Batman. Much like Tim Drake is in the comics. Plus John Blake and Tim Drake do sound quite alike...

In essence we got a backdoor origin story for John Blake, meaning we could quite easily have him as a new Batman or even Nightwing. Which, given that Nolan is now DC's film godfather, has to have been deliberate.

Not the last I read:
http://spinoff.comicbookresources.c...wont-produce-batman-reboot-or-justice-league/

I'd like them to leave this universe alone now. Nolan's given us a pretty tight story/character arc over the 3 acts, with a full resolution to the main one - Bruce Wayne's - and left us with enough to see how things would carry on: Wayne a free man both from the burden of being Batman and his parent's death, presumably all loved up with Kyle in Europe where they can live a normal life together (he didn't look hard up either). The people close to Wayne know he's alive as Bruce (Fox, Alfred) so they're happy and in Gordon's case he knows that Batman endures in some form. The torch was passed to Blake to be Batman (likely to need Fox's assistance). We don't need to see any of that though and it'd be terrible if they tried to bodge a 4th film together out of the final minutes of this one.

When they reboot I hope they just start anew with an entirely different spin on it (and they have to) - another guy will be another Bruce Wayne being another Batman, and I guess if they want a JLA ensemble then Batman's universe in those films will have to be more like Arkham Asylum/City where there's room for the unbelievable/super powers etc.
 
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Slightly oddly I found Bane's dialogue too clear. It was like they had turned the sound up on his speech too much, to the point that his was the only voice that drowned out the soundtrack, which then made it seem odd. It was like watching a normal movie but with one character's lines being shouted into your ear by a bloke sitting next to you.

Oh and I wish they had made the cafe scene a little more ambiguous to leave it open to interpretation as to whether it had actually happened or not.
 
Soldato
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This wasn't Inception though, Nolan clearly wrote the story and character arc to have a finite end and I think showing Wayne and Kyle cements it (as if the autopilot thing, bat signal restoration etc wasn't enough) beyond doubt.

As a self-contained trilogy, he was able to give Wayne a happy ending - something that normally never happens with Batman - the default for superhero films is the same as with the comics in that bar the odd special edition, the characters are perpetually doing their job, fighting their demons, never ageing, new outfits etc. Him hanging up his boots and us knowing he's won@life is important for closure of the arc and as a way of Nolan saying 'done' w/Batman. Also gotta give Alfred something to smile about, poor guy thought he's failed utterly.

I think the only thing I would have liked to see is Gordon/Kyle/Fox witnessing the explosion and their reactions given their stakes in the story.

There's also questions like, how did Wayne get back to and get in Gotham from the prison? How did he find Kyle so quickly all the time (e.g. when he returns to Gotham, presumably after he 'died' to whisk her away), and things like that but they're minor quibbles - he's Batman after all.

By the end I cared more about the characters state of being than the fact it was Batman kicking azz etc. Bruce and Selena <3 d'awwww - totally have a Catwoman crush now and thought Hathaway did a great job with it, and Nolan obviously did his research as she displayed all the best Catwoman qualities without the stupid mystical cat *** stuff.

As for JLG - Nolan did his homework in that Blake had bits and pieces of all 3 Robin's in his character/upbringing. Neato.
 
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Also I totally forgot about this, the ending of The Dark Knight Returns involves Batman diverting an atomic weapon and then staging his own death, albeit in separate incidents. Twas a big source of inspiration for the trilogy, after all.
 
Soldato
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Maybe he did die in the blast. Maybe what Alfred saw was what he had wished to see in the time Bruce had done his disappearing act, Bruce Wayne with a woman and happy.

The more I think about it the more I think it's no different to Inception. Michael Caine in both at the ambiguous end.
 
Soldato
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Not the last I read:
http://spinoff.comicbookresources.c...wont-produce-batman-reboot-or-justice-league/

I'd like them to leave this universe alone now. Nolan's given us a pretty tight story/character arc over the 3 acts, with a full resolution to the main one - Bruce Wayne's - and left us with enough to see how things would carry on: Wayne a free man both from the burden of being Batman and his parent's death, presumably all loved up with Kyle in Europe where they can live a normal life together (he didn't look hard up either). The people close to Wayne know he's alive as Bruce (Fox, Alfred) so they're happy and in Gordon's case he knows that Batman endures in some form. The torch was passed to Blake to be Batman (likely to need Fox's assistance). We don't need to see any of that though and it'd be terrible if they tried to bodge a 4th film together out of the final minutes of this one.

When they reboot I hope they just start anew with an entirely different spin on it (and they have to) - another guy will be another Bruce Wayne being another Batman, and I guess if they want a JLA ensemble then Batman's universe in those films will have to be more like Arkham Asylum/City where there's room for the unbelievable/super powers etc.

Few conflicting reports around this. I guess we'll need to wait til after Superman to see what he does.

It wouldn't be a case of trying to "bodge a 4th film together out of the final minutes of this one" though. I mean, the Blake character was pretty much the lynchpin of this entire film, and we got an origin story which was essential all Robin in everything but tights and fancy gadgets. It'd be easy to reboot it in an new direction with John Blake as Batman in some capacity.

I doubt they'll do it, mind you. It's strange to think that the way it ends sets it up for another installment only to think that it'll probably never happen.
 
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I just got back from seeing this, I enjoyed/loved it. It had a few problems which I can mostly look over as I only really pick holes in films I don't like, Or films I like but everyone else likes so I have to find something to not like about it to seem different and cool in front of the ladies.. even though there are no ladies.

Anyway after thinking about this and glossing over most plot points the only thing that has started to trouble me (but didn't whilst watching) was that Gotham City didn't look very much like Gotham City but just like New York. We all know they are supposed to be the same place, but the other films either before reboot or Nolan s' have always seemed like a slightly different city. Maybe just because a lot of this film was in daylight.

But if that is the only thing I didn't like then it was a success.

On a side note the Cinema that I saw it in had over run the previous film due to technical difficulties by 35 minutes so we went into the screen and they just played the film. No trailers or adverts, not even the little thing to say what certificate it is. Just like a Pirate DVD, it was great.
 
Soldato
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Soz this will be long.

Maybe he did die in the blast. Maybe what Alfred saw was what he had wished to see in the time Bruce had done his disappearing act, Bruce Wayne with a woman and happy.

The more I think about it the more I think it's no different to Inception. Michael Caine in both at the ambiguous end.

You're overthinking. :) Just because Nolan did Inception doesn't mean all of his films are going to have an Inception type ending. He likes twists, yes, but he also likes letting you piece together the bits. You know there were people thought Dent wasn't dead at the end of TDK? There are probably people saying Bane survived being shot right now lol. The ambiguity of Inception was an integral part of the plot due to the dreams/levels of dreams. Batman is Batman. You might as well say Alfred is a bored butler who hallucinated the whole trilogy.

Wayne fixes the autopilot (found out after the fact) - this provides him with a way to escape well before he's even taken the Bat out to sea - the editing is done in such a way that you're led to think he's still on it with a short time remaining, as the audience at that point have no idea he has this ace up the sleeve. This has been done in just about every 'did they make it?!' moment in film ever. He didn't need to leap into the icy sea when it was miles out - he has ample opportunity to escape between leaving Gordon/Fox/Kyle and Blake seeing the Bat go out to sea.

He has plenty of time in the aftermath of the explosion and the clean up to leave the 'passing the torch' equipment in his will to Blake and restore the bat signal (smashed all through the film), as well as grabbing his mum's pearls; this little montage at the end means we're given after the fact knowledge that when he took off with the bomb, he had the chance to disappear once and for all without people looking for him.

Gotham will think Batman is dead, having died a legend, but like all legends, he'll endure because if Gotham ever needs Batman, there is one waiting.

Bruce Wayne's 'death' serves two purposes - one, anyone interested in Wayne for the wrong reasons... no point, he's dead. Two, it's symbolic for Wayne's character - he can live a normal life without the act he had to play in public and the weight/guilt he carried over the death of his parents and Rachel, he's a new man.

The fresh start plot-thread for Selena Kyle is important because her desire throughout the film is to do what Wayne won't allow himself to do - start anew. The reason Catwoman and Batman always hooked up in the comics/got married/had kids etc is because she's the only woman in his life that 'got' him as both the bat and the man. How much influence this is supposed to have on him isn't explicitly shown but by the final act we've had two characters who care about him and come to care about him imploring him to hang up the pointy ears before he ends up dead, with one as the love interest who he himself entrusts with the means to (in a much more simple fashion) wipe her own slate. I also guess this is how he finds her in the aftermath since she has the USB key and it wouldn't be a stretch to say he tagged it.

Finding Alfred... he stated that he went to a specific cafe in Florence the same time every year (he even names it). Easy for Wayne, he's still a genius even if he has no knee cartiledge! It'd be a doddle to find Alfred (how easy did he find that Chinese dude in Hong Kong in TDK). He gave Alfred what he wanted to see, both to let the poor bugger know he was alive, lest he sink into perpetual depression and to show Alfred's emo moment wasn't in vain - it took the usual Hollywood saving the day before he acted on it though, but in the end he embraced life instead of chasing death.

Also, Alfred never at any point saw Kyle involved with Wayne romantically, so it wouldn't make any sense seeing her with him at the cafe if he was seeing things, he only knew her as a thief. Worth noting in that Florence shot Kyle is wearing Martha Wayne's necklace - no small gesture on Bruce's part both because of him hiding it away due to his guilt (and subsequent symbolism of releasing it), and passing on family heirlooms to partners typically being a sign of a serious committed relationship etc.

Comicbook Wayne is never allowed to transcend his personal demons/the cape because Batman needs to keep going, new stories, new outfits, new villians. Nolan, having a complete self-contained Batman story in three films had the luxury of giving Wayne an ending he deserves, but never normally gets. I don't see why it's hard to believe what's laid out quite satisfyingly to us at the end.

Fox knows he lied about the autopilot when he flew off w/the bomb - he's smart enough to put 2+2 to know Bruce has checked out cleverly
Gordon knows because he fiinds the bat signal restored post-explosion
Alfred knows because he physically sees him
Kyle knows because Wayne is now baking her Hovis on a daily basis
Blake doesn't know, but only knew him for a brief time anyway - of course Fox could tell him if he wanted to (if they worked together) but we're entering fanfic speculation territory here.

Few conflicting reports around this. I guess we'll need to wait til after Superman to see what he does.

It wouldn't be a case of trying to "bodge a 4th film together out of the final minutes of this one" though. I mean, the Blake character was pretty much the lynchpin of this entire film, and we got an origin story which was essential all Robin in everything but tights and fancy gadgets. It'd be easy to reboot it in an new direction with John Blake as Batman in some capacity.

I doubt they'll do it, mind you. It's strange to think that the way it ends sets it up for another installment only to think that it'll probably never happen.

I believe WB hyped it up a while ago and Nolan has recently shot it down.

Good storytelling leaves you wanting more. What Nolan did is show that within his universe, Wayne has gone through the full character cycle, and that's it, his work is done, he can get a tan, have batcat babies and invent safe nuclear fusion reactors, but it's important for the themes set up in the film that the legend of Batman, the symbol, be immortalised, cemented as legend. What he did with Blake was show that the legend was being preserved, the torch passed. I didn't really feel it was done in a way to say 'go on, make a sequel'. What the audience needed to see was that Gotham City will always have a Batman if he's needed ("Batman can be anybody"), whilst giving Bruce Wayne the peace and closure he deserved.

In V for Vendetta, when the same thing happens at the end, nobody clamours for a sequel because it's a self-contained story and not a serial ongoing thing like Batman always has been. One of the important things in the story is Gotham itself - in the first film it's corrupt, by the third in making it safe they've gonne too far (Patriot Act/Dent Act parrallels etc, the 99% etc), and when it's all over the suggestion is Gotham has found a balance - Batman's final act gives them the chance to also start again, much like Bruce himself can start again, but they no longer need each other.

It cheapens the conclusion (for me) if we go straight back into 'some evil dude messes up Gotham again straight away and we need Batman, who isn't Bruce Wayne and doesn't have 1337 ninja skills to save the day.' Let it be I say. We have enough to play with it in our imaginations, at least.

I think the problem is that Nolan did such a good job, you can't but feel that whatever someone else comes up with is going to be inferior, so it's 'safe' to want more of the same, when for Nolan he's finished with it as he's told the story of Bruce Wayne and his internal/external struggle from start to finish. Bruce Wayne has more or less always been Batman (with the odd change for one-offs), so if you'r rebooting then I don't see why they'd want to go back to Nolan's universe, and I don't think they should really.
 
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Before seeing the film I read that a lot of people had trouble with understanding Bane. I think my cinema must have done something because his voice was very clear and sounded like a voice over, rather than sounding like it came from someone on the screen.
 
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I enjoyed it - But didn't really like it.

I genuinely felt like I was watching one of the old Batman Forever, or Batman & Robin movies. It just had that feel about it. That, This doesnt make sense but its a Batman movie, who cares.

Just too many things that didn't add up and didn't have that sense of this could be possible to it. Let alone that half hour in you could already see how it was going to pan out.

"Oh I was adopted and my parents killed" Oh right your robin then.
"You need to fix the Autopilot" "Theres a bomb" He's gunna fly that out
""Bane was tra" .. League of shadows.

Bane - My god yes, he was brutal, and I think Tom Hardy did everything he could with the character, but without being able to understand half of what he says, and as an actor not being able to express facial emotion, it doesn't leave you with much else to go on. Imagine Heath Ledger's Joker without face emotions..
Dont get me wrong, Watching him in those brawling scenes were brilliant, I think he did a cracking job of it, and he properly raped Batman mid way. Like, if the whole world is handing out ass kickins, Batmans just there going "yeah, me, shove them up my arse". But where was the shot of him with half his face broken off?? urhh.

Don't even get me started on that plane tho. That ruined it for me. Too overkill.

Catwomen was ok, she did an alright job of it. But, too much assumption that we know who she is. No backstory at all. Poor.
 
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Caporegime
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But where was the shot of him with half his face broken off?? urhh.

Why do you even need to see that?

You see Bane walk off with half his mask that he has taken off and just discards it. There is no need to see a half broken bat mask on Wayne at that time. Totally pointless.

The whole cinema that Iw as in at this point was in silence, no rustling of packets or anything. So I think what he did worked exceptionally well.
 
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Why do you even need to see that?

You see Bane walk off with half his mask that he has taken off and just discards it. There is no need to see a half broken bat mask on Wayne at that time. Totally pointless.

The whole cinema that Iw as in at this point was in silence, no rustling of packets or anything. So I think what he did worked exceptionally well.

Because you know it was filmed, and only cut out to keep in pg rating down. Nolan would only of wanted to put that shot in if he could properly show Bruce completed bloodied and battered. But that's the shot I want to see, that's the 18+ movie it should be.
 
Soldato
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Why do you even need to see that?

You see Bane walk off with half his mask that he has taken off and just discards it. There is no need to see a half broken bat mask on Wayne at that time. Totally pointless.

The whole cinema that Iw as in at this point was in silence, no rustling of packets or anything. So I think what he did worked exceptionally well.

Same with our showing, you could hear a pin drop.

Exactly, the same when I watched it
 
Soldato
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I enjoyed it - But didn't really like it.

I genuinely felt like I was watching one of the old Batman Forever, or Batman & Robin movies. It just had that feel about it. That, This doesnt make sense but its a Batman movie, who cares.

Just too many things that didn't add up and didn't have that sense of this could be possible to it. Let alone that half hour in you could already see how it was going to pan out.

"Oh I was adopted and my parents killed" Oh right your robin then.
"You need to fix the Autopilot" "Theres a bomb" He's gunna fly that out
""Bane was tra" .. League of shadows.

Bane - My god yes, he was brutal, and I think Tom Hardy did everything he could with the character, but without being able to understand half of what he says, and as an actor not being able to express facial emotion, it doesn't leave you with much else to go on. Imagine Heath Ledger's Joker without face emotions..
Dont get me wrong, Watching him in those brawling scenes were brilliant, I think he did a cracking job of it, and he properly raped Batman mid way. Like, if the whole world is handing out ass kickins, Batmans just there going "yeah, me, shove them up my arse". But where was the shot of him with half his face broken off?? urhh.

Don't even get me started on that plane tho. That ruined it for me. Too overkill.

Catwomen was ok, she did an alright job of it. But, too much assumption that we know who she is. No backstory at all. Poor.

Go to disagree with you, especially on Bane, I thought he was menacing
 
Soldato
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Watched this last night... better than I thought it would be.

Could this be the best trilogy I will see in my life? Possibly.

It was epic! i want to go see it again. Sad that Nolan will not be Producing (Assistant Prod aside) any more Batman films, I've loved the Trilogy. The scope Nolan would have had for Batman's enemies and what he could have done with them is mind blowing. :( and few :D :D :D :D
 
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