** The AMD Navi Thread **

[Satchfanuk]

My theory on 5700/XT pricing is that it is artificially high to allow the channel to clear stocks of Polaris etc.

Once the old inventory has gone, 5700 will come down in price and higher SKUs will appear at the higher price points, ie 5800, 5900

 

[Panos]

I am interested in seeing geometry heavy games being tested as I think even the 5700XT will outshine the VII in these type of games if the theory of the compute units being tweaked to process geometry better.

Theres a reason why some games just perform on Nvidia compared to AMD and its not all driver related, it really is what has to be processed, shader or geometry.

The Vega 56 @ 1080p vs 5700XT @1440p FPS comparison slide AMD has shown, if is truly genuine, puts the 5700XT at 1440p within 1-2 fps of the RVII.
And that with the low "game clock" of the blower card. We have no idea how it would perform on triple fan solution from Asrock, Powercolor and Sapphire keeping close to +13% max boost clock.
However AMD hasn't given any context of what API was used on the comparison benchmark, so we have to wait another week and half to find out.

 

[melmac]

If you are right then my point still stands. Polaris was priced decently and gained them share. Either way i was asked and i showed them gain share from decent pricing. So full new launch in the rx480 at decent prices clawed some market share back. I rest my case your honour.

Well, no because you stated specifically in your post that the R300 series cards gained them 10% market share when the very chart you linked to shows that no, they hardly made any gains.

Have you forgotten already all the complaints about the Polaris pricing? Remember they showed the performance of the RX 480 and people were guessing, based on that performance and the power consumption, that the price for the 8GB version would be under $200 and the 4GB Version would be cheaper again. But, the 4GB version turned out to be $199, the 8GB version was $239. And as far as I can remember those prices were a limited to the first batch of cards and they went up shortly after that once the 4GB versions were sold out.

Do you know the real reason that AMD gained market share for that quarter? It was combination of two things. The first was that AMD had been so long with rebrands that new cards were hotly anticipated and that they had a small window where they had the market to themselves before the 1060 cards were released. You can see on your graph that after the 1060 cards were released their market share slowly started declining again.

 

[nashathedog]

The most vocal posters are all the AMD superfans. Everybody else is just letting them get on with their circle jerks in every single thread.

It's cringe worthy and makes the forum less valuable as a resource.

That's the main problem with it, I often see people come here & get what I consider to be terrible advice due to the advisors bias towards one company or another.

 

[melmac]

I'm not arguing against it.
People who buy the products at the poor pricing are to blame.
But at the same time people are buying and will continue to buy. They're not mutually exclusive statements.

And some people are giving AMD a free pass with their comments.

There are always a few people on both sides who give their respective favourite companies a free pass no matter what they do.

But, where it matters, in actual sales, it's clear that people aren't buying AMD cards no matter how they price them and are buying Nvidia cards despite their high prices.

It's pretty obvious with Vega pricing and now Navi pricing (yet to be confirmed) that AMD are going to price their cards to make a profit and not just to gain market share.

When has AMD In multiple and quick succession had faster and cheaper cards?
There's examples of AMD having better cards at X or Y time. But they have never maintained it.

If AMD were winning mindshare then people would buy them. It's easier to sell an AMD user another AMD card than it is to sell them an Nvidia GPU.

When the 5870 came out it was top dog for ages and eventually Nvidia brought out their competitor which was a faster GPU. But who came out with the next GPU? Nvidia with the 580 and then the 6970 was slower. AMD took too long to progress.

Same happened with the 7970. The 7970 was the best of its generation but then it took AMD an age to compete with the new multiple GPU's Nvidia brought out that were faster than the 7970

Totally agree with this. But, the problem in the past few years is that AMD had no money. That's not an excuse, that's just facts. Without huge amounts of money been thrown at R&D you can't come up with new shiny cards. Bulldozer left them in a massive hole and that they are just starting to climb out of. Hopefully with the money they are making in the CPU side they will make more of an impact on the GPU side.

Like you said, AMD need to come out with good cards to get market share and mind share. But, not just one generation of good cards. They need to show consistency. They have sorted the driver side out, now they need to sort the hardware out.

 

[nashathedog]

Yea most recently around the disastrous fury launch the re-branding of the 2 series to 3 series gained amd 10% on there market share. That was all about pricing and what you were getting for that money.

https://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content...17-Discrete-GPU-Market-Share-NVIDIA-AMD_1.png

The 300 series is a good example of AMD playing dirty with the consumer,
At the time the long awaited performance enhancing driver update was released with a block so we couldn't use them with 200 series gpu's, After all the 390 & 390x release reviews were done they released another driver that allowed the 200 series Hawaii cards to use the performance boost which practically halved the performance difference seen in the release reviews between Hawaii & Grenada, that said In hindsight I do chalk that one up as one of Raj Koduri's many underhanded moves more than anything but I put him getting away with these things squarely on AMD & Lisa Su who should have reigned him in long ago. He did a lot harm to AMD reputation & should have never been allowed to keep the job for as long as he did..

 

[melmac]

That's the main problem with it, I often see people come here & get what I consider to be terrible advice due to the advisors bias towards one company or another.

Unlike Foxeye, you can see that the crap is coming from both sides. Super fans from Both camps are as bad as each other.

 

[humbug]

The 300 series is a good example of AMD playing dirty with the consumer,
At the time the long awaited performance enhancing driver update was released with a block so we couldn't use them with 200 series gpu's, After all the 390 & 390x release reviews were done they released another driver that allowed the 200 series Hawaii cards to use the performance boost which practically halved the performance difference seen in the release reviews between Hawaii & Grenada, that said In hindsight I do chalk that one up as one of Raj Koduri's many underhanded moves more than anything but I put him getting away with these things squarely on AMD & Lisa Su who should have reigned him in long ago. He did a lot harm to AMD reputation & should have never been allowed to keep the job for as long as he did..

Why do you think he's gone? Koduri has been a pain in Lisa's side, IMO that sabbatical was the sack.

 

[Chrisc]

Funny how people criticise AMD for it though, but give Nvidia a free pass to gouge as much as they like, and even make excuses for them!

yeah i agree.

 

[JediFragger]

Koduri has been a pain in Lisa's side

Got any source for that info? Their working relationship could have been good for all we know, and it's just your personal opinion reflecting on the situation of him leaving for Intel.

 

[Gregster]

Funny how people criticise AMD for it though, but give Nvidia a free pass to gouge as much as they like, and even make excuses for them!

yeah i agree.

Yer, nobody ever mentions NVidia pricing and how super expensive it is!

 

[TheRealDeal]

Well, no because you stated specifically in your post that the R300 series cards gained them 10% market share when the very chart you linked to shows that no, they hardly made any gains.

Have you forgotten already all the complaints about the Polaris pricing? Remember they showed the performance of the RX 480 and people were guessing, based on that performance and the power consumption, that the price for the 8GB version would be under $200 and the 4GB Version would be cheaper again. But, the 4GB version turned out to be $199, the 8GB version was $239. And as far as I can remember those prices were a limited to the first batch of cards and they went up shortly after that once the 4GB versions were sold out.

Do you know the real reason that AMD gained market share for that quarter? It was combination of two things. The first was that AMD had been so long with rebrands that new cards were hotly anticipated and that they had a small window where they had the market to themselves before the 1060 cards were released. You can see on your graph that after the 1060 cards were released their market share slowly started declining again.

Actually the chart shows after the 390/Fury series launch they gained 4% market share so no I am right. Polaris gained them more. Yea I do remember the pricing but that was mainly due to eol 290/390/390x deals. The same can be seen with Navi as Vega64/56 pricing makes it look like a non starter. Again decent pricing from AMD will get them some share and the graph proves it. How much share I don't know.

 

[Zernath]

Yer, nobody ever mentions NVidia pricing and how super expensive it is!

Mention it they do, heavily criticise and refuse to pay it they do not. If you're buying the overpriced product, then it stands to reason that you're happy with the pricing, otherwise you wouldn't pay it. Just saying.

 

[nashathedog]

Why do you think he's gone? Koduri has been a pain in Lisa's side, IMO that sabbatical was the sack.

Hi I'm not sure what you mean by gone, I mean he's gone from the company, & good riddance.

Got any source for that info? Their working relationship could have been good for all we know, and it's just your personal opinion reflecting on the situation of him leaving for Intel.

Hi, Raj Koduri was sacked, I struggle to see how people can think otherwise, He intentionally covered up what was really going on and he purposely mislead & lied to consumers, Vega was the nail in his coffin because he handled the release like you'd handle a 2 week old tuna corpse, After that train wreck he was immediately off on an alleged sabbatical to spend time with his family that he never came back from. The day he went we knew he wasn't coming back.

 

[melmac]

Actually the chart shows after the 390/Fury series launch they gained 4% market share so no I am right. Polaris gained them more. Yea I do remember the pricing but that was mainly due to eol 290/390/390x deals. The same can be seen with Navi as Vega64/56 pricing makes it look like a non starter. Again decent pricing from AMD will get them some share and the graph proves it. How much share I don't know.

LOL, sorry. Not sure how anybody can look at that graph you posted and think that. 4% market share gain in a time when Nvidia had nothing new out and people were waiting for Pascal cards. The only times they made market share is when Nvidia had nothing out, like at the Polaris launch. And it wasn't even that significant, not even 10%

To put it simply, pricing cheap has not worked for AMD, it hasn't got them significant market share and the few times they have gained a small increase they haven't been able to keep it. Just look at the graph, AMD's market share is going down constantly.

 

[Gregster]

Mention it they do, heavily criticise and refuse to pay it they do not. If you're buying the overpriced product, then it stands to reason that you're happy with the pricing, otherwise you wouldn't pay it. Just saying.

I think you need to look in the "Something super is coming" thread and you will see everyone jumping on and criticising the prices. Just sayin....

 

[hyperseven]

Funny how people criticise AMD for it though, but give Nvidia a free pass to gouge as much as they like, and even make excuses for them!

Sooo people do not criticise NVidia for their prices Aye OK

 

[Zernath]

I think you need to look in the "Something super is coming" thread and you will see everyone jumping on and criticising the prices. Just sayin....

Yet they will pay them, which makes any criticism of said prices nothing but hot air. If people didn't buy, Nvidia wouldn't charge.

 

[queamin]

Didn't Raj Koduri wanted to split up cpu and gpu departments up to make them separate.

 

[nashathedog]

Unlike Foxeye, you can see that the crap is coming from both sides. Super fans from Both camps are as bad as each other.

Definitely. It's okay preferring a brand but the issue in question is making recomendations based on your preference rather than what is the better recomendation at that time, It's possible I've done it in the past myself but you live & learn & I tend to make my own purchases more about which is the better product for me at that time.