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** The AMD Navi Thread **

Discussion in 'Graphics Cards' started by subbytna, Aug 20, 2017.

  1. Rup

    Gangster

    Joined: Aug 23, 2017

    Posts: 187

    Well Raj Koduri got a nice job at Intel straight away, so I think he's quite happy!
     
  2. MyBrains

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 30, 2012

    Posts: 2,079

    Location: Stoke On Trent

    Well with Intels past record of failures (other stuff away from CPU's).. he'll feel at home over there :p
     
  3. Zernath

    Hitman

    Joined: Feb 22, 2019

    Posts: 518

    Location: East Anglia

    Well, wanting and needing are two very different things. I want a 2080ti level of performance, but do I need it? :p
     
  4. Panos

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Nov 22, 2009

    Posts: 9,823

    Location: Under the hot sun.

    Exactly. Many criticize AMD for the 5700XT price at $450 MSRP, yet they forget that 2070 has $500 MSRP and the 2070 FE $600.

    When we argued last October about the 2080/2080Ti price their motto was "you pay for the extra performance".
     
  5. Besty

    Mobster

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 2,939

    whatever can provide a capped 100fps average at 1080p hdr with all the major whistles on will be enough for most, laptop or desktop.

    A liquid cooled 1080ti with 120% power cap gets us there (sans Ray Tracing) we just need to be able to make it fairly quiet by significantly reducing the power draw with a 7nm alternative and i think AMD will do it within the next 12 months.

    Once this market is cracked the battleground becomes on edge cases such as VR, 1440p, 4k and others.

    Then it becomes really interesting because for the first time ever(?) we will have a situation where a lower-end card will be all that is required for an exceptional 1080p gaming experience.
     
  6. FoxEye

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 17, 2006

    Posts: 19,921

    Location: Cornwall

    This is rubbish. Nobody has forgotten nV's pricing and nobody is giving them a free ride for it.

    Guff.
     
  7. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 18,672

    xnvm
     
  8. nashathedog

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Sep 12, 2013

    Posts: 8,472

    Location: Knowhere

    You're right we're never going to get anyone to confirm how it went down but my opinion is based on common sense & knowing how things work in any business, If you choose to ignore the facts we do know that's up to you but everything points to his being sacked, There's the sudden sabbatical straight after the Vega release, The flak AMD was recieving on & after the Vega release were all down to how he handled things & the decisions he made in the 2 years leading up to it's release, If his leaving Radeon was a planned event there would of been someone ready to take his place, but there wasn't Lisa Su had to stand in while they found someone to fill the vacancy, That is not what happens during a planned staff change especially not for the top spot. You can believe what you want as will I knowing the facts speak for themselves, Raja Koduri lost his job with Radeon because of his own ineptitude.
     
  9. Zernath

    Hitman

    Joined: Feb 22, 2019

    Posts: 518

    Location: East Anglia

    Maybe, but if people are still buying, then what good is this criticism? If you pay the premium, then you're saying that it's acceptable. That's the message these companies are getting, and they will continue to push the boundaries as long as the money keeps coming.

    We need the new generation of consoles to arrive and start competing with PC, because if this gouging continues, consoles might actually become the more attractive option for everyone but the most diehard enthusiasts.
     
  10. hyperseven

    Soldato

    Joined: May 1, 2013

    Posts: 6,033

    Location: M28

    :confused: How can the 'facts speak for themselves' if you dont know the ACTUAL facts behind his departure and move? He might have been poached by Intel long ago and he was just biding his time and making sure he could pilfer as many trade secrets as possible. Anyhow real reasons are probably tightly locked behind an NDA so we will have to wait for his or Su's memoirs to be published to find the truth.
     
  11. CAT-THE-FIFTH

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 9, 2009

    Posts: 18,511

    Location: Planet Earth

    https://segmentnext.com/2019/06/26/playstation-5-benchmarks-gonzalo-apu-beats-rtx-2070/

    The latest leak puts the PS5 GPU performance above a Vega64 or GTX1080.

    So an 8C/16T Ryzen 2 CPU and perhaps RTX2070 or RX5700XT performance?? The score is apparently over 4 times higher than the original PS4.
     
  12. FoxEye

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 17, 2006

    Posts: 19,921

    Location: Cornwall

    Well I'm in no danger of buying any nV cards any time soon, I can assure you. Despite being an "nVidia shill" (I get that a lot :p)

    And yes, the PS5 is going to be massively interesting for me, when it releases. (The ShooterBox, not so much :p)
     
  13. tyler_jrb

    Mobster

    Joined: Aug 24, 2013

    Posts: 3,399

    Location: Lincolnshire

    It will be quicker but take a lot of those benchmarks with a grain of salt. What were they running that 2080 at 1515mhz stock? :D:p
     
  14. D.P.

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 29,965



    This.

    Koduri was no happy at AMD. He wanted a much larger R&D budget, greater separation between the GPU and CPU business, create APU's with Intel (before Ryzen was a thing), and have a greater independence in bussiness direction. Intel offered him at least some of this.
     
  15. bru

    Soldato

    Joined: Oct 21, 2002

    Posts: 6,870

    Location: kent

    All that power in an APU, not going to happen.

    Just think it would be as hungry as the currant (soon to be released) 5700xt and don't forget to include the CPU's power needs.

    Why did AMD bother building the new Ryzen 3000 series and the new RX 5700 series when they could of just released an APU that makes both of them redundant.

    Yes I know that these custom SOC's have been Co developed with Sony an Microsoft, but let us at least try to keep the hype in check.
     
  16. CAT-THE-FIFTH

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 9, 2009

    Posts: 18,511

    Location: Planet Earth

    AMD never released any of the Playstation or XBox APUs either.

    Also,who said it would be an APU? It might be separate chips,and companies like MS and Sony tend to subsidise their consoles anyway.

    Moreover,Sony and MS have kind of confirmed some of the specs - one of them being the XBox having an 8C Zen2 based CPU. The cheapest Zen2 8C part will be £300+ next month. By next year I expect 7NM will be cheaper anyway.

    The 2020 GPUs might be much better IMHO. You are not gaining a ton of normal performance on average over a sub £500 2017 GTX1080 or Vega64 with current offerings.
     
  17. D.P.

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 29,965



    Cost is not actually the most questionable part. It is power. No way will Sony be wanting a 500w console.
     
  18. CAT-THE-FIFTH

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 9, 2009

    Posts: 18,511

    Location: Planet Earth

    The PS4 PRO PSU is rated upto 310W at the wall:
    https://www.polygon.com/2016/9/8/12841606/ps4-pro-vs-ps4-slim-comparison-which-ps4-do-i-buy-guide

    XBox One X PSU is rated at 245W with a 2560 shader Polaris part using a huge 384 bit GDDR5 memory bus:
    https://www.anandtech.com/show/11992/the-xbox-one-x-review/2

    It uses a Polaris based part with 2560 shaders,instead of the 2304 in the RX480/RX580/RX590 cards but with a 384 bit GDDR5 memory controller. In terms of TFLOP rating its around the same as an RX580 with 384 bit memory bus and not a 256 bit one.

    Lets look at how much an RX580 consumes in power:
    https://tpucdn.com/review/sapphire-rx-580-nitro-plus/images/power_peak.png
    https://tpucdn.com/review/sapphire-rx-580-nitro-plus/images/power_average.png

    214W to 240W at the PCI-E power connectors. So using desktop parts as a measurement is not really indicative of what sort of power the GPU part will consume,as a desktop RX580 will not be able to run off a XBox One X PSU,despite the GPU having more shaders and a much bigger memory controller and loads of GDDR5.

    The Ryzen 7 3700X is a 65W TDP part,and I expect the part in the consoles will be clocked lower with no dynamic clockspeeds(so lower TDP and power consumption). A Navi 5700XT according to AMD is upto 225W board power,and I expect again the console part will be clocked lower,and remember the consoles are being released next year,so 7NM will be in a better state and cheaper.

    To put this in context my whole SFF PC system,with a 65W TDP Ryzen 5 2600,loads of drives and a GTX1080FE is well under 300W at the wall in every game. I think max was 270W to 280W.

    So nah,I think its all doable in a 2020 system without needing 500W. I don't even use a 500W PSU myself,I use a 450W one which is more than Corsair used for their GTX1080 systems at 400W.

    Also if Sony and MS are looking at using NVME SSDs and not cheap SATA drives,it tells you they are definitely looking to push performance a bit more than normal. Stuff like Stadia is potentially a thorn in the side of the traditional console business IMHO.

    I also expect the next consoles will cost more too.

    Its better to compare AMD to AMD,as the score for the RTX2070 is less than a Vega 64 and the RTX2070 is a faster card. A downclocked RX5700XT or an RX5700 variant should hit those scores,and the big jump in CPU performance will help a lot with higher FPS in the next generation of consoles. The Jaguar based cores are probably holding back the GPU in the XBox One X IMHO.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2019
  19. Panos

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Nov 22, 2009

    Posts: 9,823

    Location: Under the hot sun.

    If the recently leaked PS5 benchmarks are true, it tad slower than the RTX2080 and faster than the GTX1080, and is inline with MS video saying that the next Xbox is 4 times faster than the XBX.
     
  20. CAT-THE-FIFTH

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 9, 2009

    Posts: 18,511

    Location: Planet Earth

    I think people also need to realise what do the PS4 PRO and XBox One X,have compared to current desktop systems,ie,an RX470 and an RX580 respectively in terms of TFLOPs. If we say the GPU in the next generation is around Vega64 performance,it will be just over double the performance of a PS4 PRO and 60% to 70% faster than the XBox One X GPUs. RTX2070 level performance will be more like a 2.5X increase over the PS4 PRO and just under twice the increase over the XBox One X.

    The move from the PS4 to PS4 PRO and XBox One to XBox One X GPUs in terms of TFLOPs was more than double in both cases.

    If Vega 64 or GTX1080 is more than what sub £300 new generation mainstream performance is even in 2020 then the consoles deserve success then.If we are stuck with similar performance for similar money in 2020,then they deserve it even more.You could get a GTX1080 or Vega 64 for £430 to £450 in late 2017.

    Its bad enough now under £300 or $300. The fastest part launched under that price is the GTX1660TI which is around 35% faster than a mid 2016 GTX1060(although better than the RX590). Reduced price Vega 56 cards are better,but are not even 50% faster than an RX480.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2019