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The RX Vega 64 Owners Thread
- Thread starter Kaapstad
- Start date
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I need a bit of help the store page for the Vega Nitro + says the following
Can someone tell me the difference between the Legacy and UEFI bio's please along with which is best (or are they the same) also it says you can change the bio's by pressing the button with the Sapphire logo, I can't find it?
Can someone tell me the difference between the Legacy and UEFI bio's please along with which is best (or are they the same) also it says you can change the bio's by pressing the button with the Sapphire logo, I can't find it?
Associate
The card does not have the switch with logo. You can see from PCB shots in reviews. So this is an error on Sapphire site IMO. It just has normal flip switch near the end where display IO is.
Pretty sure all VEGA do not come with pure legacy VBIOS. They come with VBIOS which has legacy and UEFI/GOP module within to allow usage in "pure UEFI" environment (ie Hybrid VBIOS). All UEFI bios motherboards usually by default are set to have CSM: Enabled which does not create "pure UEFI" environment (link). If you want "pure UEFI" environment set CSM: Disabled.
Regardless of if you use CSM: Enabled/Disabled the legacy portion is always used to set the card up. The UEFI/GOP module is only referenced by mobo when CSM: Disabled. On a legacy BIOS motherboard (ie non UEFI), when using a GPU with Hybrid VBIOS, the UEFI/GOP module within it is ignored (as mobo BIOS is unaware of it) and only the legacy section is referenced by legacy bios of motherboard.
Pretty sure all VEGA do not come with pure legacy VBIOS. They come with VBIOS which has legacy and UEFI/GOP module within to allow usage in "pure UEFI" environment (ie Hybrid VBIOS). All UEFI bios motherboards usually by default are set to have CSM: Enabled which does not create "pure UEFI" environment (link). If you want "pure UEFI" environment set CSM: Disabled.
Regardless of if you use CSM: Enabled/Disabled the legacy portion is always used to set the card up. The UEFI/GOP module is only referenced by mobo when CSM: Disabled. On a legacy BIOS motherboard (ie non UEFI), when using a GPU with Hybrid VBIOS, the UEFI/GOP module within it is ignored (as mobo BIOS is unaware of it) and only the legacy section is referenced by legacy bios of motherboard.
Associate
How come you got it over the 1080ti?Too much
Got sick of waiting.
Soldato
That Sapphire sure is tempting......but the price, it's just unjustifiable for me.
Soldato
So it's still happening
My card is overclocking itself to 1812 on the core and crashing itself, is this the drivers or something else?
It happens when i run it on power mode or custom on the wattman, 0% powerlimit or +% it will rock along at the normal clocks 1712-1722 for a while and then just randomly go to 1812 and then instantly crash, sometimes resetting the pc in the process and then the gpu tach light will not come untill i hard reset the pc...
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated..
My card is overclocking itself to 1812 on the core and crashing itself, is this the drivers or something else?
It happens when i run it on power mode or custom on the wattman, 0% powerlimit or +% it will rock along at the normal clocks 1712-1722 for a while and then just randomly go to 1812 and then instantly crash, sometimes resetting the pc in the process and then the gpu tach light will not come untill i hard reset the pc...
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated..
Associate
So looking back a few pages through the thread, I believe you're running a 64 LC bios on a stock 56? I think that might be the root cause of your problem really.
Soldato
This is true a LC bios on a 56 with water cooling.
Can you expand upon the reasoning this is happening?
Associate
I can only guess at it, but to start off you're running a configuration that was never meant to be run 
We don't know exactly how the 64 and 56 differs, only AMD and the foundries would know. At some guessing though, it's likely that all chips are essentially the same as they come off the wafer but tested and thrown on the appropriate 64 or 56 pile, and then some of that additional performance is probably disabled by laser cutting some of the connections in the 56 chips (where they would probably prioritise disabling those bits of the chip that didn't pass the tests).
So essentially, you'd be getting the duds, the "did not make it to their 64 level standards" chips, when you buy a 56 rather than the 64. Some will no doubt push to that level, some may not. Also, we know from people here that not all 64's are created equal either, they don't all clock as easily. The bios you're using expects it to be a full 64 chip though, and to meet whatever standards they applied in testing these chips. As it's a 56, it probably wouldn't, and you could run into trouble like this as a result.
We don't know exactly how the 64 and 56 differs, only AMD and the foundries would know. At some guessing though, it's likely that all chips are essentially the same as they come off the wafer but tested and thrown on the appropriate 64 or 56 pile, and then some of that additional performance is probably disabled by laser cutting some of the connections in the 56 chips (where they would probably prioritise disabling those bits of the chip that didn't pass the tests).
So essentially, you'd be getting the duds, the "did not make it to their 64 level standards" chips, when you buy a 56 rather than the 64. Some will no doubt push to that level, some may not. Also, we know from people here that not all 64's are created equal either, they don't all clock as easily. The bios you're using expects it to be a full 64 chip though, and to meet whatever standards they applied in testing these chips. As it's a 56, it probably wouldn't, and you could run into trouble like this as a result.
Soldato
Assassins creed black flag 1440p 60fps solid in the first big city. I was shocked how well this game runs but that was short lived when I realised this game came out 2013 lol really that long ago.
Anyway I really enjoying it, you can grab it free until 23rd from ubisoft https://www.ubisoft.com/en-gb/
Anyway I really enjoying it, you can grab it free until 23rd from ubisoft https://www.ubisoft.com/en-gb/
Soldato
I can only guess at it, but to start off you're running a configuration that was never meant to be run
We don't know exactly how the 64 and 56 differs, only AMD and the foundries would know. At some guessing though, it's likely that all chips are essentially the same as they come off the wafer but tested and thrown on the appropriate 64 or 56 pile, and then some of that additional performance is probably disabled by laser cutting some of the connections in the 56 chips (where they would probably prioritise disabling those bits of the chip that didn't pass the tests).
So essentially, you'd be getting the duds, the "did not make it to their 64 level standards" chips, when you buy a 56 rather than the 64. Some will no doubt push to that level, some may not. Also, we know from people here that not all 64's are created equal either, they don't all clock as easily. The bios you're using expects it to be a full 64 chip though, and to meet whatever standards they applied in testing these chips. As it's a 56, it probably wouldn't, and you could run into trouble like this as a result.
I understand all of this but why then will the card run perfectly under this and the 64 bios, but just randomly overclock itself, I know people with a real LC 64 vega that cannot hit 1800mhz, so they would crash also if they had this probelm.
Do you know what i mean?
It will run as many benchmarks as i want at 1100 hbm and 1750 core (@1712-1722mhz) no problems at all, it's just in games after about 30 minutes it will suddenly think it's ok to go to 1800+
IIRC the liquid BIOS has increased TDP as well as clocks over the standard 64 BIOS which has increased TDP/voltage/clocks over the 56 BIOS. It could be that with the liquid BIOS because it has so much additional headroom as far as power goes and it also has less available stuff to actually use the power, the boost is going to what it thinks are the limits but the card isn't capable of that.
*EDIT*
What I mean is:
V56: 210w to power 3584 shaders and 224 TMUs
V64: 295w to power 4096 shaders and 256 TMUs
V64L: 345w to power 4096 shaders and 256 TMUs
V56 with V64 BIOS: 295w to power 3584 shaders and 224 TMUs
V56 with V64L BIOS: 345w to power 3584 shaders and 224 TMUs
Obviously there's more to power than the shaders/TMUs, but my point is that the V56 with V64L BIOS can boost much higher than any other combination as it has much more headroom to do so, especially when water cooling makes temps a none issue.
*EDIT*
What I mean is:
V56: 210w to power 3584 shaders and 224 TMUs
V64: 295w to power 4096 shaders and 256 TMUs
V64L: 345w to power 4096 shaders and 256 TMUs
V56 with V64 BIOS: 295w to power 3584 shaders and 224 TMUs
V56 with V64L BIOS: 345w to power 3584 shaders and 224 TMUs
Obviously there's more to power than the shaders/TMUs, but my point is that the V56 with V64L BIOS can boost much higher than any other combination as it has much more headroom to do so, especially when water cooling makes temps a none issue.
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Soldato
Does the card have dual BIOS? Can you try running it on the 56 BIOS and see if the same thing happens?
If it does, then it doesn't seem like the 64 BIOS is to blame. If it doesn't and everything else is the same, then maybe it is an issue running tje 64 BIOS on the 56 card.
Soldato
I see what you are saying, so it kinda see's the power usage and temps and the bios / driver thinks "i am within my limits and can go faster" and then crashes, because its just a little v56 air in disguise..
Can you provide a screenshot of your settings, I think like uber has said it's a combination of the power limiter and power tables are written for a v64 which has been binned at at a certain frequency at a certain voltage leakage.
In benchmarks if you are observing the clock speeds then for example in firestrike 1080p Gt1 you will see the clocks are lower than the wattman/p6/p7 settings you tweak to. Some people think is due to cpu overhead but it's not, if you look at the cpu core loading they are very low, the gpu in Gt1 takes all the load Gt2 it will pretty much hold the clocks you set. I observed the same problem with my Rx470 with the clockspeed not scaling in Fs Gt1.
With a V64 26.2k firstrike I spent 3 days getting there http://www.3dmark.com/fs/14374946
It's due to the power limiter nearing or hitting at the limit in Gt1. This is the secret to getting a high score in Gt1, you need to tune your voltage and p6/p7 to the sweetspot or fool the i2c in to seeing less current at the voltage controllers, (not advisable as I blew a mosfet on the rx470 doing this lol).
As to the moments in real gaming you are seeing 1800mhz peak and then crash, to me there's a few reasons, maybe your p6/p7 are not tuned to the voltage table and it's overshooting because of this, it could be this also combined with a moment where the game engine is cpu starved and so the Gpu will overshoot, I see this sometimes with the Lc Bios if I'm uncapped and no v-sync In a game menu or the game is loading.
With what Ubersonic says also makes sense In that the current load sensing is written for a v64 and as the v56 uses less power maybe the Avfs and tables need to be written for A V56.
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I thought that was it but after reading the store page I thought that it might be the switch to work the RGB lighting which is not working yet as they haven't released the software for it, Cheers for the info though.
I've got a 75hz Acer 3440x1440 Freesync monitor and the two make a good pairing imo. I thought about going for a 1080ti but I had a GTX 1080 a few months back and although I thought that was an okay pairing at first after a while I started noticing issues that Freesync would have fixed in quite a lot of the more demanding modern games. So I decided to pay a bit extra so I can take advantage of Freesync.
At the end of the day yes I paid too much for the performance however a card like this should give me a good couple of years worth of decent gaming and I do game a lot nowadays.
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Whoops.
Associate
I see what you are saying, so it kinda see's the power usage and temps and the bios / driver thinks "i am within my limits and can go faster" and then crashes, because its just a little v56 air in disguise..
I'd concur with the hypothesis. If I run V64LC VBIOS on my V64 AIR with WC I get a similar situation.
I have not tried gaming but just benchmarks. For example it will run 3DM FS for a differing time each run, at an unexpected time instance it will boost to 1800MHz IIRC and keel over. This is purely at stock on V64LC VBIOS. If I set the PowerPlay whilst on V64LC VBIOS as V64 AIR VBIOS or my own OC settings I use on V64 AIR VBIOS I am all good.
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Soldato
That is fantastic information, thank you so much.
I find this to be true because before I moved to the liquid bios, i could get 26,000 on firestrike gpu score, yet since moving to the lc bios i can only get 25,500 around and thats on extreme mv and 1175 hbm with 1756 core, all other undervolting and settings i try get me 24,000 ish. Which i used to get on the v56 stock bios ..... was weird to me, but this explains it somewhat.
I may have to go back to the v64 bios to get my sweetspot of speed unless there is another suggestion? Like could i use 64 bios power with lc bios clocks and 1.25 hbm increase?
Im not so savy at this area of overclocking, but i have been tinkering since august with 56/ 64 OC and UV and until going to LC bios felt like a pro...
*edit
My settings that cause a fail are
945 @ 950mv hbm
stock p6 and p7 (1752 max)
@p6 950 or 1000 or 1050 ,,,doesnt really matter does the same.
P7 1000 or 1150 or 1200 or 1250 again doesn't matter which. (i have to set to the lowest so the max core only reaches 1600 around to avoid this crash)
It will hold 1712-1722 in any benchmark pretty darn steady(90% of the time) occasionally dipping to 1680-1699
When i'm home i can screenshot, but like i said it happens on any game i choose, i look at the time line of core mhz and the last reading before a fail is 1800 and something.
AND ALWAYS when i go to the reset button of wattman, the whole of crimson gui crashes
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